Job Discussion Forums

nolefan · Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 1458 Location: on the run

I agree that most Hip Hop is one of the most relevant/important musical current. However, I beg to differ with those that claim it is always offensive. There is quite a bit of "clean" hip hop out there but it is not as marketable as the extreme kind.
Strangely enough, I find French Hip Hop to be on a much higher level than its American counterpart. MC Solaar is a genius a denouncing the wrongs of society through wonderful rhymes and words, a real delight to listen to from a musical and lyrical standpoint. Manau has also managed to bring out some great stuff (Hip hop with a Celtic influence) that can be socially relevant without being offensive. That being said, you gotta give people like Eminem and Dr. Dre a bit of credit for their writing.

For the record, Michael Jackson started the whole crotch grabbing movement way before it appeared in Hip Hop....and he is as pop as it gets.

Canasian · Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Canada

The G-stringed Avenger · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:45 am Post subject:

Dr.J · Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 304 Location: usually Japan

I don't have much to say here...kind of turned into a name dropping contest.

There's nothing impossible about entertaining and saying something deep at the same time, though the two often get confused.

The G-stringed Avenger · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:08 am Post subject:

Just to clear up - I don't think much of Puff Daddy, I don't think he represents Hip-hop. All I said was that his clothes, his posture, his speech etc. are quite a good example of hip-hop culture.

It's too bad that many people - family groups, Christian groups etc. - feel that hip-hop is the devil's music. Yes, they obviously haven't listened to any. Try "Dear Mama" by 2Pac, "Stan" or "White America" by Eminem, "F*** tha police" by NWA, "Race War" by Ice-T, even "Never Again" by Ja Rule and so on... deep social messages all. Single mothers working miracles, societies that scapegoat artists when disturbed kids snap, the unreasoning fear many white parents have of "black" culture invading their homes and kids' minds, police brutality, the race relations (or lack thereof) timebomb, love and losing love... if more people listened to the positive messages contained in hip-hop, the world would be a better place IMO!!!!!!!!!

Josh Lyman · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 98

Here I go for candidate for most unpopular post ever...

Groan

Puff Daddy or Sean Malcolm Waterford, or Preston Holmes or whatever the hell his name is, is a privileged suburban trust fund, rich parented poser. The way that people get sucked into absolute crap is amazing to me. "Wow. That guy did such a good job of ripping off that other person�s song. I think I'll buy an album full of his pre-selected, record company written, clothing-line-cash-in marketing schemes."

Then when they do write lyrics, they don't even have to make sense, it just has to rhyme. When they realize that they don�t have the imagination to mean something and make it rhyme, at the same time, they just drop a dime, order a tonic and lime, ain't that a crime. STFU YOU NO TALENT, HALF WITTED, SOULESS "SUCKER OF SATANS ....." (That's really not a great example.... I didn't just make my own word up when I couldn't think of anything else.)

How could you listen to someone that has nothing to say, and someone who is just an image? And don't get me started on eminem. How much do we care that someone is that low, that they would make money out of publicly berating their own mother?

Stop buying 4 minute advertisements that only promote the puppet singing them. Why for all that is holy, would anyone in their right mind buy a 4 minute ad?

"We're happy consumers" - Bill Hicks.

The G-stringed Avenger · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:26 am Post subject:

Yeah, I always thought Puffy was just a rich kid and that "ghetto" thing was just an act!

And yes, some of Eminem's stuff can be sick or disturbing, but I stand by my comments - listen to "Stan", "Marshall Mathers", "The Way I am", "Sing for the Moment", "White America", "Who knew" or "Square Dance" (quite insightful in light of subsequent events).

Here's some lyrics:

"Square dance":

All of a sudden you got Uncle Sam's ass askin'
to join the Army or what you'd do for the Navy
You're just a baby, getting recruited at eighteen
on a plane eating their food and their baked beans
I'm 28, they're gonna take you 'fore they take me

or "Who knew":

So who's bringin' the guns in this country
I couldn't sneak a plastic pellet gun through Customs
over in London
And just last week I saw this Schwarzenegger movie
Where he's shootin' all sorts of these motherf***ers
with an Uzi
I see these 3 little kids up in the front row
screamin' "Go!" with their 17-year old uncle
I'm like "Guidance?"
Ain't these kids got the same moms and dads who got mad when I asked if they like violence?
And tellin' me that my tape taught 'em to swear
What about the make-up you allow your 12-year old daughter to wear?
Try tellin me your son doesn't know any cuss words
when every day the bus driver's screamin' at him
f***in' him up worse

Ben H Nevis Jnr. · Joined: 12 Jun 2004 Posts: 108 Location: peninsular china

aramas wrote:

extoere · Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 543

Ben, as usual, once you've weighed in, there's little left to say. You do have some unusually lucid overviews and an uncommon erudition. Do you do jazz?

best,
ex

Lynn · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between

Sadken · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 341

Black Twang is from South London and raps about Phil Mitchell, Rigobert Song and Ray Houghton. TY is from London as well and raps about shopping in Tescos. Roots Manuva is from Bristol and raps about cheese on toast and pints of bitter. Hip Hop is relevant outside of the US.

Sadken · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 341

Also forgot to mention the current rise of Southern Hip Hop in America and the whole "crunk" scene. Lil John, Lil Flip, Ying Yang twins, Bonecrusher, T.I. are good places to start on for that scene.

It seems to me that Hip Hop is now so global and there are so many different kinds of acts under the one badly fitting label that to dismiss all of it as mysoginistic or thuggish is a bit like saying all books are shit because of Jeffrey Archer, Catherine Cookson, Andy Mc Nab etc etc.

ContemporaryDog · Joined: 21 May 2003 Posts: 1477 Location: Wuhan, China

joeyjojo · Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 13

well i do have one question for you, how old are you? theres good aspects to all music, yes even country. for you, as far as musical education go's, your best bet is to not take the advise of such an ignorant person, who ever they are. its a shame that people can be so close minded about things(hip hop hater!). And just so ya know i'm not a big hip hop head, I've got on some led zeplin, dazed and confoused as i type, but i am frequent hip hop listener.
If anyones in china or taiwan and knows about any of those parties (raves) email me and I'll be there.
sorry lynn, hip hop defenetly is not rob base, digital underground, or george clinton.the first two of your choices of hip hop are rapper's, not hip hoppers, the third of you selection, george clinton, is pure funk baby. it was around before hip hop. You want hip hop, listen to mos def,
talib kwali.

ps puff daddy, and emeniem are shat, even though em can freestyle, puff daddy should stick to producing
you heard!

Aramas · Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:52 am Post subject:

lol - My reasons for disliking hip hop are not political or racial, and though I loathe US culture, not cultural. I hear it from time to time in downmarket clubs, and just don't like the sound. It's as simple as that. It's even worse if they have video screens, but then I rarely find myself in such plebian surroundings.

I enjoyed the bit of pseudo-literate w@nking that claimed trance was the 'runt of the acid house litter'. I'm guessing that was ripped from a gopher at NME. But if it were true then what would that make hip hop? Disco's crack baby?

Perhaps I just dislike American music in general. I actually searched long and hard and found a few US dance tracks that I like, but there were always qualifiers. Iio's Rapture is a really good song, but the original version had the most embarrassing bassline this side of disco, and the rest of the music was pretty much appalling all round. The singer, who is the song's only redeeming feature, was born in Libya to Pakistani parents, then 'raised' in the US. The mix I like is by Armin Van Buuren (a Euro trance DJ and producer), so not a lot of cheeseburger and 'freedom' fries there. Deep Dish did a half decent 'housy' mix, but then those guys are Iranians that moved to the US. My point being, of course, is that it seems that the only 'American' music I can stand is being made by the sort of people that are probably under surveillance by your friendly local secret police from the Department of Fatherland Security.

I must confess that, if there is such a thing as 'devil's music', then it would have to be Country. Apart from having no redeeming features whatsoever, as an animal lover (or so I'm told), I'm appalled at the thought of the number of cats that must have been strangled in order to develop that distinctive country sound Shocked

I also dislike most of the Euro 'Top Ten Dance' crap that gets thrashed on the radio and in crappy clubs, so does that mean I'm prejudiced against skinny white mainstreamers? I am, of course, but that's not why I dislike the music. I just can't bear cheese, regardless of it's national origin.

If it looks like shyte and sounds like shyte, then I don't need to force piles of it into my ears before I dismiss it as shyte. However, a lot of people love shyte. After all, consumerism is entirely dependent on the plethora of shyte connoisseurs Smile

You'll have to forgive me if I forego the dubious pleasure of 'acquiring' a taste for it Razz

Just don't forget to brush your teeth afterwards!