Job Discussion Forums

[Old Dog]

I noted that this topic was raised in the Newbies forum but I think it's worth including here. I find this question interesting since I am nudging 67. I've been here for some years. The only difficulty I have had is that prior to 65, the school was keen on 2-year contracts but once I hit 65, the Education Authorities in Head Office insisted on only a 1 year contract.

As for pay, theoretically I get paid more than everyone, Principal's official salary included - though I don't get the big black "school" car with heated seats and smoked glass windows. Nor do I get the nightly 5-star restaurant dinners nor have any access to the "back door" fee payments. But still, I get by. However, I'm aware that once Chinese teachers hit the retiring age - 57 or whatever - very often they return to work but at a reduced salary.

My impression is (and that's as much as can be made of Chinese silence) that my own contract will be extended for as long as I'm not in a state of physical or mental decay since they know damn well the students love my lessons and that I'm good PR material via word of mouth for the school.

There was a teacher in a city near here a few years ago who was 70 or 70+. The city was Yangzhou which is not too dreadful a place - near Nanjing and on the Thin Western Lake and all that. He seemed to be welcome and then, of his own volition, he moved on to a university in Kunming. What his level of pay was in relation to others, I don't know. And might I add, he was of Afro-American origin (I don't know the current vogue term so apologies to anyone if I've got it wrong). Since there's often a definite prejudice here against any skin colour other than white (yellow included), he seemed to fall into the right place for him. He had a limp but was generally in good health as far as I could see and spoke the most beautiful English - He was a retired University Librarian, as I recall. I'd say any school securing his services was damn lucky regardless of his age.


I think the crux of the matter probably involves the following factors:
a. What value does the school find in your presence in terms of the quality of your teaching and the "word of mouth" value you have to the school via positive reports among parents of the worth of your lessons.
b. What worth do you place on yourself and what salary are you prepared to insist on if the school wishes to retain your services.
c. Is your age and your expensive face a greater plus to the school and is it without the negatives that might come from cheaper, less skilled, less experienced, more mobile "tourist"-type foreign teachers?

Against this is my feeling, sometimes stronger than others, that the quality of your work is quite immaterial to your assessed worth here. What is important is your foreign face. That's what the schools are really paying for. So I suppose that if the kids observe you have a foreign face, if they like your lessons and if they report that they like you and that you are helping them in some way towards exam success, you're OK. But the real quality of your lessons is pretty immaterial.

In our school, there is a definite prejudice against young females. They might want to go out at night and be seen in places where young female teachers (who should be at home looking after their babies) should never be seen, e.g. karaoke bars. China's obsession with security does not give young females much hope of employment in this school.

But I've been in China long enough to know never to trust a Chinese smile and so I make plans now to do other things than teaching in China if I should choose to remain here for whatever time after someone thinks that, as a teacher, I'm for the scrap heap.

[Roger]

Completely agree with your anecdotal evidence. Age doesn't matter. You were lucky in your first job to be offered a two-year visa. I have never seen that with my own eyes, and I have rubbed shoulders with quite a number of long-termers here. I suppose your age was totally irrelevant in their considerations!

As for our being hired for PR value, that's absolutely no secret. Figureheads, that's what we are.

Persoanlly, I am aware of my input; I know that I have little influence over their long-term attitudes to learning English; in the cases of IELTS or TOEFL exam takers, it may be a little different. These guys often remember who coached them more effectively. But the also-rans give no hoot about your efforrts; what matters to them is how you got across to them - either as a ranting foreign devil or as a friendly softie!

But I have been noticing shifts in the TEFL scene. Previously, it was normal for me to teach a lot of adults, especially at training centres. There hardly are any self-paying adults these days. Those training centres that enrolled adults for evening classes are now acting as recruiters for middle schools where we work for a subcontractor who is not really in a legal position to offer that kind of service.
Middle schools will eventually follow the way adult classes have gone; I think when statistical evidence shows that foreign teachers (deployed to practise conversation classes) have next to zero impact on the English proficiency of their students, that window of opportunities will close too.
Adults can still be found on occasion - but it's mostly in in-house English classes where the company pays. Eventually, the mediocre results of these English programmes will have to be examined critically too.

Thus, in maybe 5 to ten years, our time will be nearing the end of its zenith!

[Old Dog]

I don't know if I got a two-year visa. Probably not. But the school wanted the two-year contract to keep me around. I guess two one-year visas were organized. I didn't really think about that point at the time. I used to leave worrying about that sort of thing to the school. But now, more aged, it's a one-year contract and a one-year visa.

[oprah]

I would say you have it right. We are here for political or PR reasons. It does not matter what you do in the classroom as long as the kids like you.

[Spiderman Too]

A 76 year old American gentleman joined 'my' university this term, and signed on for 2 years. I kid you not!

Prior to his 'retirement' in the States, had he been a career educator for nearly 50 years; I'm guessing this was a major factor in the university's decision to employ him.

Despite his 2 year contract, his Foreign Residents Permit and Foreign Experts Certificate are current for 1 year only.

[Talkdoc]

I am 49-years old and the youngest foreign teacher at my current university. All of the foreign teachers have a master's degree and a minimum of 20 years experience either in education or business and, quite frankly, I was surprised. It's been some time since I've been the "kid" in the group.

However, I also have to agree with the assessment suggesting that we are little more than dancing bears or just a White face (and it�s not related to qualifications, apparently). There is so much more I could be doing here with my education and experience and there has been incredible resistance to that.

I offered to work, as a volunteer, in the student counseling center providing a few hours of counseling or even training and was turned down because, according to my department director: "The director there is not qualified and will lose face." Apparently, the director's "face" is far more important than quality of treatment that could be offered to the students.

The school actually offers an undergraduate course in psychology and I was told that I couldn't teach it because "the woman who teaches that knows nothing and she would be very angry if you teach it." This is the first time I have been rejected because I am perfectly suited for the subject matter.

The university is actually planning on starting a master's degree program in psychology next year and I have been asked to work on the development of the program BUT it is still very much up in the air as to whether I will be allowed to teach in it. Apparently, those courses are reserved for Chinese professors only and I would need special permission from Beijing through the party representative at the university in order to teach anything other than English. But the crazy part is, I would be the only professor at the university next year with a doctorate in psychology!? Currently, I am teaching two classes in human resource management and that is only because they got stuck with two extra classes and they couldn't find a Chinese teacher with available time to teach them. (But, apparently, they did have to get some sort of special permission from the party representative for that to happen.)

So, honestly, I am getting a little disgusted (and bored) with my gross underutilization at the school. When the director recruited me, he was full of promises about how he could use me to do this and how he could use me to do that and now that I'm actually here, there appear to be all sorts of insurmountable obstacles to my doing anything but teaching English (which, of all the things I mentioned, I am the least qualified to do). Go figure.

Doc

[guruengerish]

I've read this forum with interest. I'm now 65, and a pensioner in Australia, and getting bored rapidly!

For the past six years I've been teaching English in Indonesia, hopefully successfully, but who knows?

Now I'm looking at China, and it seems that being ready for a wheel-chair (in local eyes) might not be such a big deal if applying for a job. The big decision is; where?

[Ariadne]

Hey Doc.. You sound a bit disillusioned. For awhile there the move south seemed to make life better for you. Maybe things will perk up again soon. Sure hope so.

Dog,
Most of the teachers at our university are over 45, many are in their 50's and 60's. I'm as old as the PRC, and I believe my age was a factor that helped me get a job here.

Most of the FTs here see their students for one 2 hour session every two weeks. That alone suggests that the administration is not really expecting us to have any real impact on their education. The kids are fun and we do our best for them, but I don't think any of us feel that we are making a genuine contribution. Even 1 hour every week would offer a better chance at some retention and continuity. I'm still an optimist and believe that even if we aren't actually teaching them much English, we are building a few bridges.

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

I know two men who are over 60 teaching English at universities. The one man was married to a true sourpuss of a woman who ran some Australian IELTS program and told me that I could not qualify because I did not have a TESL, but she trained all the Chinese teachers to teach it.

English is going to be an important subject in China for the next twenty years. Everywhere there are English schools, classes and programs. Kids are doing so much English, that they hate studying it. I try my best to make the experience enjoyable for them.

I am 37. I am married and have settled down here. I would like to have a good steady University position, and get a good repuation as a teacher and lecturer. Try my hand at other business ventures. I love teaching my children, but one hour of 30 plus 8 year olds knocks the wind out of me.

I think what will be the end of the ESL profession will be the advent of technology. Imagine handheld translator notepads with voice activated sound. If you and someone who does not speak your language has this device, you can talk all night. Now, I go to MDBG, locate the Chinese English dictionary and I can text message my wife about anything now. I think this will be the wave of the future.

Senor