Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Ownership of your Alien Resident Certificate (ARC)

Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Ownership of your Alien Resident Certificate (ARC)
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4

This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.

Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Taiwan

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

TaoyuanSteve

Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:33 am Post subject:

markholmes wrote:

Quote:

My source for this kind of info is not the internet.

Most peoples source is the internet, particularly about the new legislation. The information about this issue on Tealit is oft quoted both on this site and other Taiwan sites.

Quote:

Unlike you, I live here at this moment.

This is the biggest red herring. Yes, maybe you have some insider information that I don't know about, but you're not posting it here (I don't see any revelant information here that I didn't know about).

Strange how you didn't feel the need to bring up my country of abode in all the posts in which we were in agreement, of which there are many.
Frankly why I post here is none of your business.

Quote:

Seeburn claims that it is alright for a school to withold it and give you a photocopy.

Seeburn is wrong. No two ways about it.

Yes, this post drifted off course. Partly because I and others added other ideas / suggestions. But I believe what I have written falls under the title of this post.

Quote:

We have also suggested that one of the recent changes in law allows a teacher to change jobs while retaining their ARC. Is there some reason that you don't believe that?

It does appear to be true. In legislation this does appear to be the case. I think I have said that before. This information has been available for a long time.

Quote:

Whether your post on Forumosa gets any responses or not (and I suspect it won't) doesn't matter to me.

If thats the case why provide a link to it in this post?

I didn't post on Forumosa to prove anyone wrong I posted it to see if anyone would come forward to confirm that the new rules actually work in practice. If it doesn't work in practice, then depsite the legislation it doesn't work at all.

TS, why do you suspect nobody will come forward? Surely if the new rules are working well, somebody amongst those 3000 posters will have gone through this procedure.

Where to start? I posted a link so people over there could get the real story behind your question. BTW, you have received a response. I hope that clarifies something for you, though I'm not sure why you care about the laws affecting my life over here.

I don't simply learn about things like this on the internet. I'm sure you do from Vancouver.

You claim I don't know anything you don't. Clearly that is false, Chuff. You needed to post on Forumosa to verify what we were saying was the case. I didn't need that verification. Any reason why? I live here. This law impacts my livelihood. I know about it and know it to be the case because I am at this moment adding a second sponsor to my ARC (not the photocopy). The fact that I live here and you live abroad is not merely a red herring. It is a very important point that suggests your true knowledge of what is being discussed. For you this just more reading on the net. For me, this is life. I don't care why you post here so long after you left. BTW, I don't remember quoting you as any sort of authority in other threads. We may have been on the same side of issues before, though I can't recall where. When we come into conflict over Taiwanese laws affecting foreign residents, one's place of abode is a valid point to bring up in the debate. It does seem silly that you argue policies that only affect residents, try to get "proof" from another website (as if this resident's opinion along with Wombat's weren't enough for you), find out we were right and then claim Seeburn was full of it all along and you had basically agreed all the time. You only added other "ideas/ suggestions." So if we are all suddenly in agreement, what was your point again?

Fortigurn

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks again wombat and TS for helping keep this discussion on track and accurate.

Rice Paddy Daddy

Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 425
Location: Japan

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Firstly, although you didn�t specifically state so, you have alluded to what is a common misconception amongst teachers here in Taiwan.

Your employer cannot cancel your ARC. Your employer can revoke their sponsorship of you as a foreign worker here which results in your work permit being cancelled. Without a valid work permit your ARC then becomes invalid as it is based upon your work permit and resident visa being active.

This may sound like splitting hairs but it is in fact a very important distinction to make. Provided that you have secured alternative employment before the completion of the above process then your new employer can apply to have you transferred over to their sponsorship.

Womabt, it is not a 'Transfer.'

jason_seeburn

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:36 pm Post subject:

Fortigurn wrote:

jason_seeburn wrote:

They're just interpreting an act. The legislation hasn't been changed. It's just administrative law (a tribunal interpreting its governing statute).

Ah but that's the point Seeburn. In practical terms it's new legislation, because a new administrative law is in place. The situation you once knew is no more. A new situation prevails, and has prevailed for some 10 months now (without your knowledge).

Uh, no it isn't. Legislation comes from government, not tribunals. The fact that it can be interpreted in such widely differing ways depending on the tribunal just reenforces the nebulousness of the situation and would advise caution for anyone who attempts to follow the path you suggest.

Quote:

This flatly contradicts the out of date information you were supplying, and demonstrates how important it is that people on this forum listen to those with experience.

You've found a new administrative tribubal that purports to interpret an act in a different way. Good for you. Let's hope it works. As I said before, I am sceptical.

jason_seeburn

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:43 pm Post subject:

jason_seeburn wrote:

Generally an ARC sponsorship requires a contract between the teacher and the school. If you quit, you break this contract. Then it is up to your original school as to what they will do.

Quote:

It seems clear that you are confused between the work permit and the ARC. This confusion is quite common among newbies as it is really made that clear by the powers that be, but as you claim to be such a Taiwan expert I would have thought that you would have known better. I have explained the difference earlier up this thread, and shown why none of this matters.

Great. Now, in South East Asia, it no longer matters if you break an employment contract with an ESL school. Wonderful. Why do I even bother coming to this board with all of the completely stupid and useless information people like to provide.

jason_seeburn wrote:

What happens if the old school neglects (intentionally) to notify the Executive Yuan?

Quote:

That�s the beauty of it all. It doesn�t matter whether they do or not from your perspective anyway. There would be legal ramifications upon them for failing to file the appropriate paperwork but you wouldn�t care as you would be legally working at your new job.

Right, of course, legal ramifications for an ESL school in Taiwan, brought by a foreign ESL teacher. Sure, sounds like a likely story.

jason_seeburn wrote:

Quote:

Seeburn claims that it is alright for a school to withold it and give you a photocopy.

Quote:

Seeburn is wrong. No two ways about it.

Alright? when did I say that? I said that the school routinely WILL withold your ARC and give you a copy.

Quote:

And that Jason, is just plain wrong. You are the first person that I have ever heard of in ten years of being in Taiwan that has ever allowed their school to hold their ARC.

You obviously don't get around much. All my roommates had this problem, as did many people I met in foreigner bars in Taichung. It was one of th running concerns that people had to deal with. It was particularly annoying because you had to ask for your ARC so you could travel to Thailand and other places, and sometimes the school refused to give it to you, if they didn't want you to leave.

Quote:

This sums up what I have been saying all along, and the reason for the signature that I use on my threads. Some of the stuff you post here is just a laugh. But some of it has far more serious ramifications. You should be more responsible in your posting and post the truth as far as saying, �In the only school that I worked at in Taiwan the school withheld my ARC and gave me a copy�, and not that it is routine for schools to do so. Jason you are wrong no matter which way you argue it or try to twist your words. Just accept this and move on.

Get a life and stop bothering people. You're wasting my time with these circular arguments.

Last edited by jason_seeburn on Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fortigurn

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject:

jason_seeburn wrote:

You're splitting hairs Seeburn - we can call it a new interpretation of the current legislation, or we can call it effectively new legislation. It doesn't change the fact that you were ignorant of this information, and tried to convince people that you knew what you were talking about when you didn't.

Quote:

You've found a new administrative tribubal that purports to interpret an act in a different way. Good for you. Let's hope it works. As I said before, I am sceptical.

I'm sorry if you're skeptical, but your skepticism does not give you the right to tell people that X is the case when Y is actually the case.

Next time you want to post anything about Taiwan, please do this forum the courtesy of becoming informed first.

The very fact that you were unaware of 10 month old information which has been put to the test and proved correct, shows that you're not the most useful source of data for people coming to this forum.

jason_seeburn

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject:

[quote="Fortigurn"]

jason_seeburn wrote:

Quote:

You're splitting hairs Seeburn - we can call it a new interpretation of the current legislation, or we can call it effectively new legislation.

No, we can't. We can call it an interpretation. That's what it is.

Quote:

It doesn't change the fact that you were ignorant of this information, and tried to convince people that you knew what you were talking about when you didn't.

uh, no I didn't.

Quote:

You've found a new administrative tribubal that purports to interpret an act in a different way. Good for you. Let's hope it works. As I said before, I am sceptical.

Quote:

MOD EDIT

Quote:

The very fact that you were unaware of 10 month old information which has been put to the test and proved correct, shows that you're not the most useful source of data for people coming to this forum.

You know quite well what the situation is on that island, and you are deliberately portraying it to be what it is not. You can't just leave your school without permission and go to work at another school. This may be the theory reported on some esl discussion forum by some questionable source, but it isn't true in practice. You guys are full of it, and you know it.

Display posts from previous:

	Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Taiwan	All times are GMT Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Teaching Jobs in China