Job Discussion Forums

Photograffiti · Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 10

Hey there,

Whoever thinks this forum isn't dangerous think again. I have been working for a school in Handan, and I just got sacked because they found a warning that I am suspected of posting. Although the warning was completely true, they are still trying to get rid of me. So here is the problem. I have not broken the contract, by posting the warning, but that doesn't seem to matter. The PSB here I suspect is in the pocket of my headmaster. I am not that sad about leaving as I wanted to find a better job anyway. However, they are trying to fine me for 1/2 of my air ticket. The catch is that they only purchased me a one way air ticket to come here (on my request) which after six months I have earned. The ticket cost 9000rmb and a round trip costs 11000rmb, so when i signed the contract they told me that I would get 2000 as the compensation for not being given a round trip ticket. My contract clearly states that I am to be provided "economy class air tickets to and from china" not specifing if it is a round trip or 2 one way. They are arguing that since I have only worked 6 months that I owe them 4500, I told them I would give them the 2000 that they gave me in compensation for not getting me a round trip ticket but they didn't go for it. They are with-holding my pay until we go to the foreign office on Monday to settle everything (the first contract break) so I am really in a position.
What happens to your visa and residency permit when you are canned?

Thanks

ShapeSphere · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 386

If this is true, then I feel sorry for you, but I have never been sacked, so must wait for those with greater wisdom to offer you advice.

But you were 'suspected'? Strange school that sacks people just on suspicion.

But, now that you have been sacked you can reveal more about the school - more names, more info. You have nothing to lose.

HOWEVER, in case your message contains an ulterior motive, this will not stop me or others from posting warnings about other schools. No other person should be deterred.

This site will be used to warn people of the dangers of many schools in China.

ContemporaryDog · Joined: 21 May 2003 Posts: 1477 Location: Wuhan, China

I do think that it should be a fair warning not to post about a school while you are still working there.

Or indeed under your real name...

TEAM_PAPUA · Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1679 Location: HOLE

Mate, that sucks hard!

Isn't there anything you can do to convince them not to fire you? I know in some contracts there are things concerning promoting the reputation of the school etc. and not doing anything to damage the schools reputation but this is all very non-specific.

Regarding your Visa - well as long as you have it on your person it is yours. I don't believe they can take it from you unless the authorities insist. If you keep it you won't be able to work legally at another school in China as you won't have transfered your residence (letter of release & PSB stamp). I guess you could agree to go quietly if they agree to give you a letter of release - best option in my opinion. Then you are free to stay in China and get your Visa renewed at the next place. May involve some serious a_ss kissing - but once you get the letter you can then tell them exactly what you think of them.

Let us know how it all works out.

(I'm pleased my school doesn't read my posts!)

T_P Cool

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

Who is yo _Papua??? Cool

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

i was staying in a hostel in bangkok, and was kicked out of the place because of something i was suspected of posting on the internet about the place. now, the post that i may have made could have been made by me, or the guy i was hanging out with at the time, however he had already left. the owner approached me and asked if i made the post, i denied it. and was kicked out. no great loss really, there's a million places to stay in bangkok, but it seems that some people don't bother to gather all the facts before making an accusation.

so i believe that what the poster here has said...... depending on the number of foreign teachers at your school, will determine how easy it is for them to find out who made the "offending" post.

if you're asked to leave, i suspect you will have enough time to get to the airport and leave china. no more, no less. come back and look for another job and problem solved.

btw, what details in the message led them to suspect you? can you tell us about the original post? are they watching this post now, even as we type?

Ger · Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 334

Try to stay calm and at least get a letter of release from the school.

echo2004sierra · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 90 Location: prc

Getting sacked, fired, dismissed, does not produce a happy feeling for the person on the receiving end, but it may be a very pleasant emotion indeed for the one(s) on the giving end.

Anyway, you've got to deal with your situation. See if you can negotiate youself some time to continue working at the school until you can find another job. Someone posted earlier about a fellow who refused to leave his job in China despite being fired!

You supply your labour/educational services and the school buys it at a price. When the school decides they don't want to buy your labour any more then you just have to sell it elsewhere. It is inconvenient for you, especially at this time of the school year but you can find a new job.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=3487&sid=f94d99f2e6d63f909726f1e8ff7568fe

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I do sympathise, but I do implore you not to overreact.
Assuming you have told us nothing but the truth, the truth and only the truth, I would suggest you cut your losses and just go.
The month is half over; they will never pay up for those two weeks you have worked.
How much time is left on your visa?
Don't count on getting fairness from any authority. Neither the education bureau nor the PSB can be swayed by arguments and logic; they only do the job they want to do, which is to see that "justice" is done to the Chinese side.

If you have been paid the better part of your plane ticket, you have already gained a substantial concession from them; don't repay them those 2000 kuai! And not 4500 either.
Your residence permit becomes invalid the moment you quit or are thrown out. Keep it as a souvenir.
Move on, mate. Get a new passport and start afresh.

Sad to say there hardly is any chance for you to get your rights respected. Especially in a place like Handan.

2 up Lee · Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:03 am Post subject:

Bad news mate, though it is clear that you have them worried about something. The school was most likely not trawling the web, no, it would have been the local PSB. Now they have "lost face" (Mandarin for 'getting caught out' or, in some dialects, 'proven to be a cheat').

As a say, you have obviously hit a raw nerve. My advice would be to push harder. Very Happy

Let's hear some more about this employer. Wink

Voldermort · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 597

I have been through a similar sort of situation, though I cannot give out too many details as it is still ongoing.

My advice is (the opposit of what I did), get your visa and go. The school will not pay you your outstanding salary, simple fact! The PSB and the FAO are only interested in doing easy work, this is usually in the favour of the Chinese.

How long is left on your visa? Do you have enough time to go to another city, find a job, then make a trip to hongkong? The chances are, if you try arguing with the authorities, you will end up with a cancelled visa, and 7 days to leave the country, not to mention the headache that comes after while trying to convince a new school to hire you. Trust me, even though they are the ones who have broken the contract, your records with the FAO will say otherwise.

Take my advice, go now, find a new job, leave the country and come back with a Z-visa. Changing your visa here will lead to more problems. As for the letter of completion, there is no certainty that you will get it, even if you do pay them. Face it, who can you complain to? Your new school may be able to fix this for you, and it would be a lot easier if you go to a different province.

I'm sorry if my advice sounds sounds a little scetchy, I just don't want anybody else to end up in the same mess that I am in at the moment. Fighting a bad school, the police and the government is no easy feat.

Good luck

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

Roger's got it down pretty well, good sense to follow his advice.

But my main concern here is the consequence of revealing too much about schools on this forum, especially negative information that is true. Of course, Dave's is our little 'hiding place' for teachers so to speak, where we can vent frustrations about incompetence in schools. If I had my way, I'd write lengthy posts in crystal clear detail about my experiences in this matter. Indeed, I wrote far too much during my 2003-4 experience in suburban Shanghai, under the assumption that employers would not be reading Dave's.

But this is not always the case, and you HAVE TO assume that employers can and will read this forum. Why couldn't they? In reality, anyone with an intermediate level of English or higher can understand these posts, which includes many FAOs, so exercise prudence when venting! Try to avoid revealing crucial info like names, etc. There's a chance that employers will misconstrue your words to their advantage or even hold your words against you!

The disclaimer we press 'OK' to says something like this, in that Dave reserves the right to reveal identity if external actions occur based on what the person posts. In other words, post at your own risk!!!

On the other hand, people deserve to know the truth, especially if teachers are treated unfairly at schools and multiple sources converge on that. Perhaps the best thing to do, then, is launch complaints from multiple teachers, all using their own accounts.

For this to happen, teachers should get hooked up on Dave's. Go tell your colleagues, "Are you registered on Dave's ESL? No? Then what's taking so long, get your butt online!"

Steve

English Farce · Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 47

In reality Genocide (Volkermort) is right of course, put it to the wind! Put it down to experience and move on before you get moved on.

echo2004sierra · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 90 Location: prc

How could your school have found out that you posted a negative message about the school on Dave's ESL Cafe?

Did someone on this forum, who read your message, inform your school and cause you to get fired so that he/she could take your job? That would be low indeed, but there are agents who would do something like that.

Another way that your school could have found you out was if you were overheard telling a colleague that you had posted such a message.

A further way the school could have found out was through their server, which keeps records of websites visited. It has been said before, even emails are not secure when sent from school computers.

Anyway, this speculation as to how you got caught out doesn't alter the facts of your current situation, as you wrote them, you still have to move on a find a job elsewhere.

I think you should type up your own letter of reference of employment in English, get a student to translate into Chinese, get a letterheaded page from the school office and have the English and Chinese versions printed onto the letterhead, (the reference should be short and sweet, very factual with the dates you started to when you finished your employment, the name of the school, address and the grades of students you taught, what books or methods you used). Then ask for it to be signed and stamped with the school chop It can't kill you to ask for this to be done, the worse that can happen is that they refuse or laugh at you.

If you don't have a letter of release you'll have to think of what to tell your new employer ( and you probably don't want to start off on the wrong foot!).

Good luck.

Photograffiti · Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 10

Hey again,

Thanks for the help everyone. As this is an ongoing situation, for the moment I have to be a little vague... sorry about this. I was also wondering, since no one has covered it yet, if I do get a letter of release, and they cancel my visa, then will I be able to work in the same city with a different school or will the PSB just refuse to give a new visa and res. permit to any school who applies for my new documents:?: I have some personal reasons for staying in the city, so I would really appreciate the advice.

Also for the "ulterior motives" that were mentioned earlier, sorry if it came off that way, trust me, I just wanted everyone out there to know that, as was mentioned in a later post "we post here at our own risk". I am totally for blacklisting employers who shouldn't be trusted, which is why I put the warning up in the first place.