Job Discussion Forums

[Nismo]

I have had different experiences from multiple people in every town:

1. Sometimes they will only try and speak English with me, despite that they obviously understand my Japanese. (I think it's great that they are trying to speak English with me, though! It breaks the ice)

2. Sometimes (I've noticed this trend amongst middle aged men) they talk really fast, faster than normal, in Japanese and expect me to understand (they'll even slur and use slang).

3. Sometimes (this trend amongst older generation) they talk really slow, despite that you are responding at almost twice their speed.

The best experience I've had was in this small town 30 minutes outside of Tokyo. I was walking by shops at a nearby temple and I wanted to buy some cooked mochi. The shop was run by this old married couple (the wife was probably late 50's, the husband early 60's). The wife, who was obviously in command of the shop, was trying to make hand gestures in order to communicate, when I suddenly speak up in Japanese and tell her the mochi I want, smiling. She was really surprised and looks at her husband and says, "They can speak Japanese well!" (I was with a friend at the time). The husband's reply was, "Of course, they should! They live in Japan!" I thought that was the greatest remark ever. The husband was not amazed, and he was very eloquent about his opinion. Needless to say, I returned to their shop at the end of the day for another mochi (and free green tea, yum!)

[Longing for Nippon]

When I try and use Japanese with Japanese friends there is a round of applause as if I have just performed an act of magic. I also find most of my J.friends dont like speaking Japanese with foreigners but on the other hand complain about our lack of communication skills in other areas of life.
I have experienced similar attitudes in France where the Parisians in particular dont like talking in French with foreigners. They seem to find it insulting that you are using their language. In fact all communication was hard in France be it in English or French!
Some countries appear to be very possesive over their language, its something I could never imagine an English speaker having. Has anyone been insulted when a foreigner has attepted to use English? Its a crazy thought, I am usually very happy to listen and attempt to decipher their gibberish.
The only time the opposite has happened where the local language was solely spoken was amongst english speaking expats in France.They only spoke french at social gatherings, very irritating for me, very pretencious and very false. I dont understand talking to people from your country in a different language. Do the fluent J talkers amongst us chat in Japanese to other foreigners where english would be easier and more natural?

[PAULH]

[Willy_In_Japan]

My Japanese is very basic.

I can order food, talk about the weather, etc. However, it is very annoying when I am using Japanese that I KNOW is correct, and having the person act like I am speaking English to them.

I went into a KFC, and ordered some chicken and coleslaw. They grabbed the container of corn....... I said "COLESLAW"....summimasen, wakarimasen'........jeez.......I pointed to it and said......."what is this in Japanese?"........'coleslaw'...........so, 'coleslaw is coleslaw'.....but they don't understand when I ask for it! Jeez, If I did indeed say it slightly differently than they did, which I don't think I did, certainly they could figure it out.

I really don't get it. When I was working at GEOS, I was speaking english with someone and the topic of mayonaise came up. The guy didn't understand "mayonaise", frustrated, I said "MY O Naise".........."ohhhhhhh why didnt you say so?"

[omarr380]

It would depend on the Japanese person/people in question. When looking for a martial arts dojo or instructor out here in Gunma, they had no problems accepting an African-American (or at least his money) so long as I spoke and understood Japanese. My current aikido instructor spent 2 years in N. America, but hardly bothers speaking English to me. He would rather speak Japanese. I was in a bar talking to the barmaid and this salaryman. In utterly uncomprehensible English he would talk to me and when it was clear I didn't understand a word he said, he would speak to the bar maid in Japanese to have her translate. The woman didn't speak any English and had said this to both of us. She would just repeat what he had said in Japanese to me IN JAPANESE! I would answer in Japanese and he would refuse to believe I could speak Japanese. The office manager of my school speaks to me in normal Japanese and could care less how well I know her language or not. I had a guy yell at me in Japanese, "Your in Japan, speak Japanese!"

Younger Japanese in their 20's tend to want nothing to do with me. I do believe it is because I speak better Japanese than they WILL EVER speak English and they are looking for a foreigner to practice their English. No big loss I guess. Most 20-something Japanese are pretty lame.

[BradS]

[guest of Japan]

I just had a long talk with my Japanese wife about the whole gaijin - goikokujin debate. The bottom line of the conversation was that most younger Japanese simply have no idea that saying gaijin can be construed as insulting. To them the words mean the same thing. Older Japanese know and intend a difference.

On the parallel conversation, I met an AEON teacher about 6 months ago in Tokyo. He spoke Japanese very well, but always ordered in English because he got tired of people not understanding him when he spoke Japanese.

[6810]

[PAULH]

[BradS]

I think you're probably right... though not 100% of Tokyites are like this. I've had several say my pronunciation is perfect and I sound very natural, however when I said "Ja ne!" to a friend of mine she gave ma a hopeless look and basically said "Brad, don't even try. You just look stupid speaking Japanese". That was a bit of a downer, though I think she doesn't really respect her own country or understand why people want to come here. To her Europe is the wave of the future, which is fair enough but to completely dis your own country just seems off.

[Nismo]

The common understanding amongst teachers and students of Japanese language is that the more Japanese people compliment your Japanese language, the worse it actually is.

edited because English is a very flawed language, changes in bold.

[shuize]

I just got back from a pleasant experience at the video store.

I say pleasant because although I expected confusion about whether the foreigner could really manage the application form, not once did the staff freeze up on me or speak to me like I was a child. That is unfortunately very common.

Even conceding that, however, I think many on this board are being paranoid. Having lived here for some time, there have only been a few non-native speakers that really impressed me with their Japanese ability. Much more common are the type who live here fifteen or twenty years and never make much effort to move beyond the phrase book.

One example. I recently visited another teacher at a university when one of his students came in and tried to explain why he could not take this teacher's class again. The teacher has lived here nearly twenty years and the student has had at least 8 years of English, but neither of them could understand each other. To be more accurate, I guess I should say the Japanese student could not make himself understood in English and the teacher could not understand what I thought was pretty basic Japanese: "I cannot take your class because I have an accounting class then."

Being able to get around in Japanse is nothing special. I'm skeptical about the people who claim to have been treated differently for speaking good Japanese because I've seen so few who speak really good Japanese. Maybe it does happen. But in my experience it's much more common to be talked down to because of one's foreign face than to be treated worse for being able to say more than a few pat phrases.

[Akula the shark]

Some Japanese really do feel bad when a non-native speaks Japanese well to them, especially if the Japanese in question has struggled with English and speaks it poorly. On the other hand, many people are relieved to find out that I speak Japanese well, as it means that they need not use English. None of my wife's family speaks English, and so me being able to speak Japanese is something they appreciate. Some people are disappointed that I can speak Japanese well, as it makes them reluctant to try to practice their English, whereas with an English speaking foreigner who doesn't speak Japanese they won't hesitate. You may also get a few with the attitude that because they speak English relatively well, they will only speak English to an English speaker, even if the English speaker speaks better Japanese.
I think you'll get a variety of reactions, some good, some bad.

[Nismo]

Here is one experience I had at Mos Burger:

Tenin: Irasshaimase! Okyaku-sama wa koko de omeshi agarimasu ka.
Me: Mochikaeri de.
Tenin: Here, eat? Taaake out?
Me: Mochikaeri de.
Tenin: Nanika ni shimashita ka.
Me: Mos Cheeseburger no oni-pote setto onegaishimasu.
Tenin: Haaave...you...want? (I think he was trying to say, "Have you decided what you want?")
Me: Mos Cheeseburger no oni-pote setto wo hitotsu.
Tenin: Onomimono wa?
Me: Ooron-cha.
Tenin: Dorinku? (drink)
Me: ooron-cha.
Tenin: Aisu ka hotto?
Me: aisu (ice).
Tenin: Corudo? (Cold)
Me: Hai.
Tenin: 590 en de.
Me: *hands over 600 yen*
Tenin: hai, sho sho omachi kudasai.

I never really knew if he was practicing his English or if he couldn't understand my Japanese. We went through each portion of conversation twice, but at least my order came out right! He was the only one at that particular store that ever went through a conversation like that with me.

[Lynn]

When I was teaching at the public elementary school a boy raised his hand while saying, "ha~~~i"

The teacher commened him for speaking Japanese with a "gaijin" accent. She thought it was very polite and "international" of him to do that for me.

At the same school when I walked in the teacher's in the morning I politely mumble my "oyaho goizaimasu" and sat at my desk. Some clown teacher said, "oHAyo~~!" And everyone laughed. I told him that he sounded stupid and I didn't appreciate him making fun of me. (I said this in Japanese) Not one teacher could see that he was actually mocking me. They all that I was way too sensitive and that speaking Japaneese with a "gaijin" accent is the polite, friendly thing to do to English teachers.

******but just though I'd like to add...I've seen Americans do the same thing to my Japanese husband here in Seattle. So, it goes both ways.*****