Job Discussion Forums

[Tripmaster Monkey]

Of course I know that it depends on many factors like what kind it is and sales, but I'm just trying to establish what the ballpark is. Assuming your book was picked up by one of the major publishers (Longman, Heinle and Heinle, etc...), how much money could one expect for selling the rights? I'd love to hear your comments, but maybe Mr Sperling might be the most able one to share.

[ESL Guru]

If you have to ask maybe you are not ready to know!

Clueless where?

[Tripmaster Monkey]

I've already braced myself for how pathetically low it might be. Just wondering how many digits might be in the number.

[ESL Guru]

If you are a new author with no proven track record, with double Ph.D.'s after your name, and nothing adverse or defamatory in your book, there are a couple of publishers who will allow you to pay them to publish a first run. If it sells out, you can then pay them for a second run.

Profits, no, just fame without the fortune. We are talking about academic publishing. This is where people publish to get promoted. The remuneration is in the advancement to Associate or full Professor.

[Tripmaster Monkey]

And what about someone with a name like Maley or Ur?

[ESL Guru]

Do you mean Alan Maley and Penny Ur?

Why don't you just email them and ask them yourself? I can PM you their emails or you can locate them through Google.

But you already knew that. What is your game in here pal?

I do not think your inquiry is a serious one anymore.

[Tripmaster Monkey]

Wow! Thanks a lot for your infinitely helpful comments. I feel enlightened and refreshed. What is YOUR game? And why exactly should I care whether you think my question is serious, clueless or otherwise? If you're looking for someone to pick a fight with, go elsewhere.

[Roger]

Youneed an agent to place you with an established publisher, and they cost upfront as well as commissions and percentages.
If you have been lucky all the way to the publisher, count on 10% in royalties from the retail price.
That is pretty much the same in countries where the language used is not English!

[Tripmaster Monkey]

Thank you so much for your answer. Do people usually collect royalties? Also, you are saying that there would be no outright payment/advance, or are you saying that the profits would be eaten up in the process?

Anyway, I appreciate the info.

[Stephen Jones]

Dear Tripmster,
Most educational publishers commission the book and many simply pay a salary, often to a committee, rather than to an individual.

If you are being paid royalties the percentage varies. For hardback novels in the UK you will get 15%; for the paperback version 5%. I don't know what they pay for textbooks but I suspect ti would be near the lower figure.

In Spain the standard author rate for royalites is 10% (as Roger says this is the most common internationally). For school textboolds they were offering 6% in the mid 80's. I don't know if this has changed.,

Now bear in mind that with an EFL course the book is actually the least expensive part of the package. The tapes can easliy come to $10,000 or more when you realize that you will need to pay up to a couple of dozen of professional actors and hire a sound studio for a week or so. The photos do not come cheap either, whether it is your time taking them or money paid to a professional library. Then you will need a graphic artist for the drawings. And let's not even think of vidoe.

So, as you can see, you will have to be offering something pretty hot before a publsher will even look at it.

Now if you are publishing a niche book dealing with a particular skill then you could probably avoid spenidnig this kind of money, but the sales are likely to be small.

You might even consider self-publication; there were publishers that used to send electronic versions of their books off to schools. The schools got the licenses to print the photocopies and the publisher never even bothered with a print run in most cases. This only applied to the UK and to school textbooks, and the higher salaries they quoted were in the range of $5-6000 a year, and that was qiuite possibly for more than one book. If you are in a country with strong copyright laws you couls consider trying to sell it yourself.

[Tripmaster Monkey]

Thank you as well.

[Anne Stevens]

Hi,

Less than 6 figures
That's a good start. Regardless of flat fee vs. royalties (or both), you may want to check a few websites for the basics (see hereunder).
Now, unless you are a star, a best-selling author: chances are you will get less than 100-50 000 dollars. The best way to really figure it out (or calculate your budget estimate):
how many hours/days/weeks will you spend (or have spent) on this project? would you accept less than 25 bucks an hour?
let's say you worked half a year (6 months) x 40-50 hours a week
that's already: 25 to 30 000 dollars.
This assumes that you are writing full-time; but you get the idea. Do not forget that the contract will probably have you read the proofs or galleys, that is one year down the road when you are enjoying some of that money (more likely a couple of years after you actually started the work).

It is not far-fetched and is half a year enough to complete the project?

Now, comes the issue of contract and would the publisher accept your quote, or would you have any say at all...? That's another story and as anybody who has signed any boilerplate contract knows: most of the time, you have no choice and no way to negotiate if that's a first contract.

But, as you said, some people like Dave are in a better position to give specifics, or go to:

the NWU website - for all info related to contracts, advice, collaborative work and resources, etc.
(they have a forum too - members-only)

or any other Freelance association or Guild or Union will help too [any google search with association + writers or any combination you can think of].

Many writers would tell you that you will be lucky if you make 20-30 000 dollars, all in all; and try to get as much as you can upfront - usually you can get payment in 2 or 3 installments:
- one part (third) on signing the contract
- another payment upon delivery ...
and i would try to get the final payment after you complete the final-final work. That 's in case you get a flat fee.

Hope this helps.
Good Luck

Anne Stevens
[email protected]

[Roger]

Someone suggested self-publishing. That is feasible but at a price.
Your biggest hurdle will be obtaining an ISBN. You might "buy" one from an alternative-type publisher, but there are not too many that do this kind of business. I do not know if it is legal anyway, but I would not worry too much about that. An ISBN is a code that enables bookstores around the world to trace the book to a publisher, who assumes responsability for what's in it.
Of corse, it is more than that. It is a marketing instrument without which you cannot sell your product. And marketing is another big hurdle. Don't believe mouth-to-ear propaganda will sell it well enough! You need reviews. Now any newspaper reviewer will tell you they get tons of new books every year for reviewing. They have become extremely selective! Again, a good name matters! Agents know the game of reviewers and know how to play them.
But a specialist book for educationists could be offered up for reviews to specialist publications outside the mainstream English-speaking media. Perhaps a brief introduction in a weekly such as 21st Century might do for you. Once you have had a review there you might get another one from a more taditional newspaper.
Still, it is not yet sold. You have to peddle it yourself. In most countries you will have to enlist the help of distributors for the local markets. Then you have to design advertising. As you can see, writing is the easiest task. Everything else is a lot of risky adventurism.
Good luck anyway
Roger

[Tripmaster Monkey]

Thank you all for your replies.

At the same time, I feel a strong urge to get this off my mind:

My question was, roughly, how much might one get paid to publish a book. Specifically, to sell the rights as compared to royalties. There were several good answers to this question.

What I didn't ask about was the feasibility of getting published, which I already know about. Granted, the publishing industry is a rough neighborhood, especially for the inexperienced and uninitiated.

However, as some pointed out, there are a myriad of avenues that one might take to get published. There are situations where one might get commissioned to produce a book and, believe it or not, there are major players in the ESL industry who employ freelance curriculum writers to develop their materials.

That said, I just wanted to know how much one might expect to earn to produce a book. Not that I have a book. Not that I am cocksuredly awaiting a million dollar offer. In my book (pun intended), one gathers such info long before it might be needed.

What bothers me is that, in response to such a simple question, some jump to infinite conclusions about my motivations and expectations for writing such a post.

I find this a lot on this board. If I post a question about how to make a TOEFL test prep class more interesting (which I did a few years ago), someone posts back that I ought to go get some ESL training, which they automatically assume I don't have. Another laments the unprofessional backpackers that call themselves teachers and notes that he can "teach the Hell" out of his TOEFL classes. Do either offer an answer to my question? Nope. I just have to rest assured that someday I might follow in their footsteps to attain teaching Nirvana (Neo, the classroom is just a program. Once you realize this, you can manipulate it).

Likewise, in response to my question. I'm essentially told to forget about such arrogance because I don't have a snowball's chance in Dubai of my writing making it to print. This might very well be true, but does it answer my question? No. If, at some point down the road, the outfit that I'm working for wants me to write a book for them (Again an arrogant assumption that I shouldn't dare suggest), I'll just have to say, "OK, I heard that the going price to write a book is $0, and that sounds fair to me. As an added bonus, I'd like to kiss your feet. Do we have a deal?"

I do appreciate the earnest attempts to answer my question, and perhaps I was a bit vague. But, I was simply fishing for information, and this is a major reason why I don't come here that often. Inevitably, I find someone pulling rank on me and usally not providing me with a useful or even relevant answer.

Ultimately, I would just ask that everyone focus on what others are asking. If it's not clear, ask some questions in response. Don't assume. Don't jump to conclusions. And above all, don't condescend.

No offense intended. Thank you for your help, and I already feel better.

Happy teaching!

[scot47]

Publishing ? Leave it to the publishers !

With very few exceptions little money is made by writers in the EFL world. The exceptions are those who produce bestsellers like Murphy's Grammar Books or "Headway". The real winneres - even there - are the publishers.

Oh no ! Not another negative post from scot47 !

Okay, for those who like positive posts, here is a different spin :
" Publishing is the perfect passtime for the EFL teacher who wants to escape from the classroom. Just put together a specimen chapter of that dream textbook and any publisher will be happy to give you advance fee and royalties. Live the American dream ! Write that best-selling EFL textbook ! Do it now and live happily ever after !"