Job Discussion Forums

[Tonester]

You know what really gets my goat? As an JHS ALT all I see are JTLs just spoon feeding their students and anything that actually requires students to think for themselves is automatically dismissed as too difficult or if it is actually allowed to proceed, answers are given and the vicious cycle of teacher dependence continues which in turn erodes any confidence in their english ability. I'll give you all an example:

I made a crossword puzzle for an elective english class using words and clues which I thought were easy enough. The topic was different languages and the clues had the country's name and students had to write the name of the language spoken in that country.

After a while, the teacher made me write the damn answers on the board and I told him "I do not wish to give the whole thing away" to which he replied "They do not know the answers, it is our responsibility to make sure they know" and I ended up doing as I was told but I really felt peeved because the answers could have been found in a dictionary but all I heard was "Sensei, sensei, wakaranai. Oshiete......"

This is a rant I admit but it just annoys me that there is so much teacher dependence and if a student does poorly it is "always the teacher's fault". I just feel that if students were allowed to think for themselves when given a problem then it may make a teacher's job a little easier but this will probably never happen in my lifetime (I am only 23 so what does that tell you?). I really don't know if this perspective is right or whether I'm just an ethnocentric know-nothing.

I already know what some of you may write; "Because they have to teach to a test", "Teachers must prepare students for entrance exams", "It has always been this way", "Schools are there to teach kids to be Japanese" or even "This is Japan; if you don't like it get out!" but I am writing this because I feel sorry for the students who actually want to be able to communicate but can't because the system will not let them. What do all of you here think?

I may become an SHS teacher here in Japan after a year or two so I'd also like to know what kind of abilities should I be prepared to deal with (It is a private academic school) and other things I should know?

Thanks guys,

Tonester

[Brooks]

at the least I think schools are teaching the students to be Japanese.
They learn to accept authority, to be passive, and to be a part of the sempai/kohai relationship. My school has kangeiko where students have to get to school early for one week in January to do judo or kendo in their bare feet. They learn bushido. For boys it is mandatory and for girls it is optional.

What students learn is to endure, and to have gaman. They have to do things on their own or in their group. It works ok if the sempais are good, but if not, it isn`t easy.

Of course I want my students to think too, but it takes time because I have to make them unlearn some things they have been taught.
Especially with the 10th graders who have gone to another junior high school, rather than our own school`s junior high.

Part of the problem is that the teachers teach to the middle. The brightest and the slowest have the hardest time.

[Glenski]

[zoubaidah]

Tonester I wonder if not teaching kids to think is Asian. Teachers have told me similar things about other countries, and this has been my experience in Thailand: I see teachers talking for the whole period, students fed information, and not wanting or perhaps being able to think. Even extends to not being able to make a choice - I ask - would you like to do this activity or that activity; they answer - you decide - you're the teacher. Sad thing is, many of my kids will go overseas to university - what a shock they'll get when they hit a Western uni!
I feel like I'm being subversive when I set them projects, make them do research and use the Internet for something other than games, produce an opinion, develop a fantasy (what I'd do if I were king of the world, or lived in the past etc) but I think that we're here to help them be international citizens and I've given that my best shot ....
I have had optimum conditions for teaching though - my maximum class size at a private girls' high school has been 24, and many of my classes at a private language school were 12 or fewer.

Zee

[Tonester]

I'll address two people:

Glenski

I think you're right in that regard. I didn't pre-teach the answers as I usually do not go to that class very often and I only go when asked because it is done in school time and I may/may not have other lessons to go to. I just wanted them to imagine what the answer might have been rather than just call "teacher, teacher". I'd have thought that an attempt would have been made first.

I feel negative as I'm starting to understand that my influence will be almost negligible due to the way things are set up. I guess it's just an idea that I'll have to get used to.

zoubaidah

I never knew that it was the same in Thailand. I have also heard cases of it in China and Vietnam so I think you're right in that regard. I do appreciate and I agree that a school should teach its students to be active members of society but when that takes precedence over actual education it becomes difficult for the teachers. Transfer that to an EFL classroom in a JHS/SHS then it can become a nightmare for many.

Glenski, has that ever brought you down as a teacher? As a veteran you are probably already accustomed to it but how did you deal with it?

[Mike L.]

[TokyoLiz]

Taikibansei,

Where did that long article come from?

[taikibansei]

[crazyteacher]

I`ll try to answer some of JimDunlop2`s original questions about what to do in the classroom and hopefully I`ll live up to my name in the process.

The following insanity has been the result of working as an ALT for 3 years in a very low level SHS in Tokyo. I dont teach there anymore but I still have 2 classes a week in a night high school for dropouts.





"How can you do speaking/listening activities when the class lacks basic language formation skills."

Easy. Yell at them! Berate them! Tell them they are "Bad students" and "Crazy students". Scold them for sleeping, using a cellphone, being noisy etc....

Before you know it the students will start imatating you and calling you a "Bad teacher" and a "Crazy teacher". Now you have the makings of a meaningful conversation. It usually goes something like this

Me: No cellphone! You are a BAD STUDENT!

Student: Me no bad student. You Bad teacher!

Me: No! I`m a GOOD teacher. You are a CRAZY student!

Student: Me no crazy! You crazy. You Crazy teacher!


It`s amazing how long this can go on for. Often the JET had to break us up (not physically). The JET would be saying "Let`s Get back to the lesson". Little did they realize that this shouting match was the best English lesson this student could ever have! When we got "back to the lesson" the student just turned off.




"you MUST have a verb in order for a sentence to have meaning"

So basically what your saying is "No verb- No meaning"? I think I have shown that this is not true. You fight against the GT method in your school but are still bound by its chains in your own mind. Basically what I mean is sometimes you just gotta say "F**K Grammar! Let`s Party!"



"My question to other teachers today is, have you had any success in breaking out of such a cycle? If so, how?"

Dont break out of the cycle, just ignore it.

" The most I can hope for is that I will instill into them a sufficient interest and passion for learning English, that they will pursue it after high-school, or be motivated to learn it outside the classroom."

cool



"As such, I take whatever grammar the students learn in their textbooks, attempt to distill it into something useful"

See how grammar is still the cornerstone of your teaching? Untill you break you addiction to grammar you will never be able to break out.


", and with very limited time, teach them how to apply it to everyday conversation, speaking and listening."

but your students probably dont have any everday english experience. It`s not like this is an EFL situation where the students will leave the classroom and then have to go into an english speaking shop to buy food.


" I try to encourage as much interaction as possible in my classes. The students are usually doing group work, pair work, or exercises that force them to speak and listen to English whenever they can..."

For low level and/or nonmotivated students you should never force them to speak. Just focus on receptive skills (listening and reading)

At the night high school it is basically like trying to teach in a starbucks. People chatting, comming in, going out, sleeping, using cellphones, sceaming obsenities, eating snacks, playing the cellphones ringtones REALLY loud. Come to think of it starbucks would be easier.

Anyway, I created a good method for these students. First all of the classes are held in the LL room. The LL room is far from the other classrooms so this move stopped the "drop-ins" from other classes who would come in chat for a while then leave. Once the students were in thier seats you turn off the lights. This will cause the bad students to fall asleep. Remember this is a night high school so many of the students have already done a days work. Then you get an easy graded reader and put it under the OHP and read it to the students while the JET translates into Japanese. I know your yelling "GT method!" but there is a way around this. You must choose books that are so easy that the translation becomes irrelavant. step 1 of the "step into reading" books by random house are so easy the translation given by the JET is not necessary. I wish the JET would translate only when the students needed it but thats what ASSISTANT means. You cant run the whole show. After 2 books play them a song and have them fill in a few blanks. put the answers on the board. Dont bother to explain the whole song.

Well this is my 2 cents........

[JimDunlop2]

Interesting reply, crazyteacher.

I am assuming that when you say "JET" you mean to say "JTE" right?

Let me just clarify a couple quick points....

Regarding my previous quote: "you MUST have a verb in order for a sentence to have meaning"

Ok, I agree -- you do NOT need a verb in order to produce a communicative utterance... But in my classes, even though it's at a limited level, I want the students to produce a gramatically correct sentence. Please don't tell me that you can have a gramatically correct sentence without a verb... The reason for this is simple: I know as well as anyone, that communication is the ultimate goal. But here's the thing. Japanese people are often incomprehensible because their attempt at English fail on basic gramatical levels. If you don't understand the importance of word order, verb function and certain basic grammar, then communication is NOT achieved. Case in point: go to this thread and see if you can decypher what the poster was trying to get across: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=15735&

Here's my theory. If I can TEACH proper grammar to the best of my ability, and DRILL it into them as best I can, given the "black box" process that happens between reception and production of the language, the output will NOT be 100% correct, but it will be MORE correct than if I had not stressed proper grammar in the first place and the student actually stands a chance of being understood, because hey -- that verb may not be in the right place in that sentence, but at least it's in there....

I do appreciate your non sequitur teaching approach, but I'm not entirely convinced of it. I certainly would not mind watching one of your lessons some time if I ever had such an opportunity.

[crazyteacher]

"I am assuming that when you say "JET" you mean to say "JTE" right?"

yeah



"Please don't tell me that you can have a gramatically correct sentence without a verb..."

Maybe not but who says we speak in sentences. Most actual spoken language is non gramatical. Some argue that actual spoken language is so degraded that it is impossible to learn and thus the basic grammatical patterns must be present in the brain at birth.

" If you don't understand the importance of word order, verb function and certain basic grammar, then communication is NOT achieved. Case in point: go to this thread and see if you can decypher what the poster was trying to get across: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=15735& "

Yes he fails to communicate but actually I dont think his grammar is all that bad. Read each line byitself. There are not so many grammar mistakes (granted he does get way too crazy with that last sentence).

If you want another example of grammatically correct but totally disfluent noncommunicative language you should call the English speaking number of the tax office. I had some questions about my tax so I called this number. The person I spoke to could speak grammatically correct english but I couldnt understand anything because each sentence had no relationship with any of the other sentences. I was wondering why she spoke this way when she said "You should just come to the tax office and they can explain it to you"

I got the idea, she was just trying to confuse me so I would come to the office instead of calling her. She was using language to achive a goal but the goal was not communication.

My point is that grammar is an important part of fluency but not the only part and not the most important part and you can have some fluency without grammar.

"Here's my theory. If I can TEACH proper grammar to the best of my ability......"

If you want to teach grammar teach grammar. if you want to teach communication teach communication.

Hope some of this helps......

[crazyteacher]

I love the smell of killing off a thread in the morning!