Job Discussion Forums

[Rhys James]

Hey all

So you find me making both my first venture into posting on this site, at long last, and also into teaching English in China. Oh, you lucky things.

Basically, my partner and I just graduated in the UK and did the Trinity Certificate with EF in Manchester. Since then we've sat on our backsides for six weeks waiting for EF to deliver on the guaranteed job overseas.

Now, finally, having done a lot of rooting around ourselves, we've been offered a job at EF Hangzhou. Simultaneously, Dongzhou Middle School, in Haimen, offered us a job. We'd applied to them in a moment of optimistic madness, despite their asking for a couple with experience, after a friend forwarded the link to us (here it is, if you want a look: http://www.anesl.com/schools/hmdzzx.htm).

Does anyone know anything about either of these schools? When it comes to the choice, there seems to be a generally pro-public school consensus, but I just want to be sure, before we pay EF back the subsidy they gave us.

Also, one advantage with EF was that they, in theory at least, were going to sort us out, leaving us EFL newbies a little less to worry about. Now, with Dongzhou, it's going to be far more upon us to sort ourselves out - does anyone have any advice? Especially in terms of things like Z Visas, insurance, flights, the Health / HIV check, banking and so forth, since these sound like things which could really trip us up.

Would really appreciate your imput.
Rhys

[Roger]

If I were you I would stick with EF as they trained you and are prepared to employ you as newbies in a foreign plae.
There is a lot of griping about EF in these columns, but I personally have got other opinions that are far more sober and less grumpy. It is a matter of finding a local EF franchise that treats you well. You may succeed, or you may be in for a rough ride. But the roughest EF ride can't be as bad as a really rough ride with a PUBLIC school.

Workin at a MIDDLE SCHOOL is potentially intimidating. Your classes will have 50 or 60 students, if not more. And their level most likely is disappointing, considering the length of their formal English instruction. Are your Chinese colleagues going to humour foreign competitors and so-called "foreign experts"? Let me be frank: lots of CHinese teachers are rather ill-disposed towards foreign teachers. There is an anomalous amount of ill-will, jealousy and misanthropic or xenophobic vibes!
I am, of course, depicting the worst-case scenariou; sometimes you hit it off well. But since you are totally new to China you had better go with a training centre where you can learn your ropes with adults and children alike.
Chinese middle-school students can be excessively uncooperative and self-centred; don't forget the current young generation is China's most spoilt one in 3600 years of history!

A last word: public school normally employ you for ten months; some do pay your summer holidays (but the majority don't!). Your work load ou
At an EF franchise, you stand to work 25 hours a week or more; you will also be working during social hours (evenings and weekends). You have more time off during the day when everyone else is bent over their office desks. But your boss will be changing your timetable frequently. Your classes will number fewer students, and some will be adults. More socialising with adults.
A middle-school should pay you RMB 7000 to 8000 though fewer and fewer do; an EF centre will probably pay you less than 6000. If you are unlucky they will insist that you spend some time at their office (so as not to moonlight).

[Susie]

I think YOU should stick with EF Hangzhou because you're British, so is it with Chinese characteristics, and you seem to have some on-going guanxi with them. I think your priority should not only be to teach English but also to learn Chinese.

Haimen is quite far from the Shanghai airports, about 5 hours by taxi (RMB200-400) and you'd have to give the driver directions! The Dongzhou Middle School keeps some boarding pupils and there may be a curfew. I wonder whether you would have a supportive working environment there.

Anyway, you have to make an executive decision and there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Good luck.

The scenery of Hangzhou is a famously beautiful and the people there are said to be tall and attractive too. They speak standary Mandarin (probably as well as their own local dialect). There are four distinct seasons in Jiangsu unlike in the south of China. The weather does become cold in the winter, but you are probably used to that from living in England. You won't need to adjust your clock according to the practice in the UK of GMT/BST spring forward / fall back.

[Ailian]

Rhys, I've already replied to your e-mail concerning DZZX, but to touch upon some things:

1. The foreign teachers are now separate from the boarding school students (once in the same building), so whilst there is still a "curfew" (11PM), it is not enforced. Not that there'd be any reason for you to actually be out that late, as there's nothing to do in Haimen.

2. Classes are of 20-35 students (teachers split the classes in half to teach them). The students range from extremely well-behaved (first year) to bundles of psychotic energy (second year), and the wide gap between the "East" (dorm) students and the "West" (day) students (let alone students in the class itself) is disheartening.

3. The Chinese teachers of the second year students are good at "humoring" the foreign teachers, but only because the foreign teachers demanded it. (There were "teachers" in the past whose classes consisted only of games. Can you imagine?!) The administration, beyond anyone, are the best at making the foreign teachers welcome, and they do all that they can to assist you in obtaining what papers you need to be here. The head of the English department for the "East" side (and FAO head) is good at helping out foreign students, but the head of the English department for the "West" side is terrible (if only due to her caustic speech in both Chinese and English).

4. There is also a summer program here, and the school would be extremely delighted if you were to do it as well! However, there is a month between the end of the school year and the "English camp".

5. You're definitely not going to get 6000-7000Y/month here. With your qualifications, it would be 4000Y/month.

6. Haimen is rather small and quiet. It's close by bus to Nantong (which I find boring, but one of the other teachers here enjoys) and Shanghai. There are buses which go to Nantong constantly, but only one specifically leaving for Shanghai; should you wish to go to Shanghai at a more civilized time, you can take a bus to the ferry and then take a bus from the ferry to the city (I've done this for Suzhou as well), or you can take a shared taxi (at double the price of a bus during full occupancy). Prices:
Nantong bus: 12 (?) Y, one way (1-1.5 hours)
Shanghai bus: (leaves at 6.45AM) 24Y, one way (same price to return, with more buses leaving to Haimen from Shanghai) (3 hours)
Ferry buses: 20Y, one way (3-4 hours, depending on your wait)
Shared car: 200Y/car (easy to obtain at the Daqian Bus Station), or 50Y/person; IIRC, prices are slightly higher during the holidays (2-4 hours to Shanghai, depending on your wait)
Taxi: ...? Depends on the route taken.
The school will have their driver bring all of the foreign teachers to a shared destination for the holidays -- we all went to Shanghai last time, then went our ways from there. (Also, the school sends their driver and the FAO vice-head to meet all new teachers at the airport. You'll likely arrive in the dead of night, so you'll miss the "beautiful" scenery along the way to Haimen, "the nation's sanitation city".)

7. If you speak Mandarin, then you'll have some "issues" here with non-school speakers. I can't understand a bit of Wuhua/Haimenhua and getting through the accents of some is a chore. (The school will also offer Mandarin classes to you, but these are rather useless if you have any real comprehension.)

8. The school may also ask you and your partner to either a) teach a kindergarten class once a fortnight, or b) teach a class at a rural school once a month.

9. I've told you the story of the "moving" of one of the DZXX teachers from one school to another without warning. Whilst it's never happened before (and this particular teacher, she isn't an angel!), it does set precedence, which would worry me.

10. I'd not want to work for EF, but I would definitely want to work in Hangzhou -- it's exciting and beautiful! Haimen may be clean, but it's dull as a rock. A friend of a Chinese teacher was visiting from Nanjing this weekend and even he agreed that Haimen's assets were limited to its seafood and its cleanliness.

[Warrina]

EF has had a lot of flak here, but as newbies I feel you would be better off with them rather than a public middle school. With EF you'd have no more than 18 students/class and you'd more than likely have adult classes as well, not just teenagers. As you know, EF uses their own material, although you'd also have to find some extra resources, which SHOULD be available at the school. As far as I know EF still pays 5,500 RMB/month, which is more than enough to live on very comfortably. You should be able to save a fair bit as well to use for travelling or whatever.

EF is good to start off with while you're learning the ropes; later you can branch out. I had a mainly good experience with EF, but next time I'll go with someone else, now that I know what there is and what suits me.

Good luck with whatever you choose!