Job Discussion Forums

[YAMARI]

I am new to this teaching stuff. Most of my classes are good . But today no matter what I did this class just sat there saying nothing. I would understand this with kids but this is third year University.

I do not teach conversational English, I teach a subject in English. In the first weeks I am a bit concerned at the fact that the students just seamed to be addicted to information. When I ask them to put down their notes or books and just talk they are at a loss. The also test me to see if there is holes in my knowledge about the subject. I am open to information to help me get the kids talking. Have other teachers notice the addiction to just the facts kind of thinking with little room for improv.

[badtyndale]

You know, your post is really begging for a Ludwigian-style response but to address your main concern I believe you are not alone in having discovered the wall of silence upon which are invited to bash your head. One possible suggestion is that you attempt to find arguments and counter-arguments about your subject (or write them yourself) and provide different groups with different information. Let them read and digest it (or at least memorise it) and then throw questions at them. It may be a long shot to expect instant enlightenment but it may start the ball rolling. I've used questions like, 'Why was the terracotta army built?' with school kids in an attempt to introduce textual evaluation to them. It can work (slowly) - so and so says this, somebody else says that, another writer thinks this... who do you believe? Good luck and be careful.

[voodikon]

that's because that's how all their classes, all their lives, have been. they just expect you to lecture while they take notes. i find it helpful to, on one of the first days of class, to explain that i want to foster an american (i'd say western but as i was educated only in america i don't know if it would be an accurate statement) style classroom, which means lots of interaction and student participation. once you point out the differences, they can at least be aware that it's OK to talk. this won't actually get them to talk, but it will let them see that what they've been taught for the past 20 years (or whatever) isn't the only style of teaching/learning.

then you could try some ice-breaking activities just to get them warmed up to this idea. hopefully they are something that can transition into your subject. for example, if you did charades (really seems to get students laughing and talking), you could choose words that relate to the subject you're teaching. look on the lesson plan cookbook for ice-breaking activity ideas and then just adapt them to your subject. the key to the ice breakers is to push them beyond their comfort zone so that speaking, in turn, seems like an easy task.

hope that helps a little?

[Spiderman Too]

I do teach oral English. I have 10 classes, 10 different groups of students; 8 freshman classes and 2 second-year classes.

Eight of my classes, 7 freshman + 1 second year, are just about perfect; extremely enthusiastic and self-disciplined about speaking English only in the classroom. Trying to get students to talk in the other 2 classes is like �pulling teeth�.

I don�t understand why. My teaching methods are the same in all classes; albeit I have separate lesson plans for grade 1 and grade 2. I give the same demonstrations, I do the same role-playing, I organize the same games, yet 2 of my classes are all but lifeless.

I�m lacking a rapport with the 2 �errant� classes but I don�t know why.

I hope another contributor offers a solution.

[voodikon]

some classes are "just like that." but obviously since what you're doing that works with the one class does not work with the other, you ought to try another approach with the other.

[Old Dog]

Yamari, I suppose you are at the Hubei Normal University in Huangshi. I just did a check of the 2001 China Uni. Rankings and it is listed in the 253rd group, a big group just ahead of the 344th group. This will mean two things. Academically, the students will not be of the first order. Most will come from non-metropolitan Hubei, often village Hubei. These will be poor kids from workhouse Middle Schools, i.e. lock 'em up 7 days a week from dawn to well into the night and make 'em rote learn and rote learn in the hope of getting them into a university, any university. This means their entire educational background will be geared to passivity and they'll bring the shyness and reluctance to stand out that comes with the experiences they've had.

I've had several old students attend there. The one who has kept in touch was an English major there. He passed the Band 8 exam and his English, while not as good as that of other old students of mine who have passed Band 8, is not too bad - though, it must be said, he writes very well.

Just do your best. Maybe you'll have to do a lot more spoon-feeding than you might have expected but, in respect of voluntary contributions in class, you'll not make a sow's ear into a silk purse. Aim low to start with. Be content with a little and be happy if you get more. Nevertheless, if the student of whom I spoke is any guide, some good will come out of your efforts even if they are not immediately obvious to you.

You need to remember that Hubei peasant kids are often exceedingly shy. Visit some of their homes if you can and establish some sort of understanding between you and them. They'll appreciate your trouble and you'll find things will change in the classroom even without the aid of lots of pedagogical wisdom.

[Mark Beckman]

Maybe a debate where they address each other rather than you may be more of a comfort zone?

I'm new to this (I'm not even there yet!) but surely there is some interaction between themselves outside the classroom, work on trying to mimic that?

All are welcome to tear these ideas down, as I said I'm new

[Roger]

Maybe I got you wrong but this is what I understood: you are teaching another subject using English as the medium of instruction; your students are in your class to LEARN, not to chitchat. If you want the latter, I guess you have to modify your course contents! I personally would be HAPPY if students could be made to respect the order that no talking has to occur during ongoing lessons - least of all in Chinese!

I do have my students speak; it took me quite some time before I had this amount of success: I bring it about by telling them upfront that each and everyone of them has to pass a test in the presence of all their peers.
You will notice that speaking is the second biggest challenge; the single biggest one is to make them LISTEN to one another!
So, my students get a score for delivering a speech on a well-defined topic within a narrow time frame. Say, one guy has to talk about "benefits to society from smoking"; no, not social costs for society from smoking" - too easy, and too boring!
Next, when the speaker has made his speech I test his listeners. Those who didn't pay attention to what he was saying have to get up until the next speaker is in front.
I tell you these guys have been learning and practising pretty hard. Especially since they all count on scoring HIGH in my class - but I tell the score to each of them in front of the whole class, and not everyone is totally satisfied wih their peormance. Anyway, it spurs them on!

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Role Play--in pairs/small groups--can work wonders.
They can Role Play whatever subject you're teaching.
IMAGINATION can be activated/cultivated...

The "shyness" in large groups can dematerialize when the scale becomes more human/humane.

Check out the whole-brain folks at www.ialearn.org

[metalgeek]

One method that has worked, is write something controversal/off the wall on the board, and hope they argue with you..
I would not suggest using tibet or taiwan though....
something like:
Old people should be euthinized
or
America was right to attack Iraq
(if you want controversy)

[tigerlily20202]

i agree...putting controversial topics on the board is a great way to get students (middle school and older) to talk while you take a break from lecturing. i usually write a situation on the board and then formulate about 7-10 questions to guide the discussion. i write them on the board 2 or 3 at a time and give them 5-10 minutes to decide how to express what they're going to say. 2 hours fly by.
nobody really listens to these students' opinions so they get pretty excited about expressing them. some topics that worked well for me was the "brain drain" phenomena (skilled chinese professionals moving overseas: unpatriotic? selfish? discuss), intercultural marriages (they LOVE anything related to romance), breaking the law to save a life, etc..
they also like survival-type scenarios: ex: if you were in the jungle and had to choose between a truck driver, a fashion designer, a cook, a hunter, a teacher etc. who would you save...they come up with some really weird answers. it's one of the few situations i've seen students resist conformity; some students, instead of being swayed by popular opinion, will fiercely defend their own.

[voodikon]

those are some great topic suggestions, tigerlily. they seem so simple yet discussion-worthy that i wonder why i hadn't thought of using them before. i notice, too, that they're similar to the very things many of us discuss on the "off-topic" board--the popular threads on that board might be yet another source to look for "real topics" that people want to discuss. there's a new thread there on the most popular threads; that might be a place to start.

[YAMARI]

thanks for all the feed back. it worked getting them to talk to one another, rather than the whole group, commen sense but i forget about my shy days. Now I just have to make sure they talk English while discussing things. The topics appear to be good ideas and I will try some . thanks