Job Discussion Forums

benno · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 501 Location: Fake Mongolia

I agree with Denise Very Happy

I rarely have any money in my pocket, Im so poor!! Sad

Roger you should know that not everybody has a big bank account like yourself

I first came to China with about 800 dollars, job contact didnt work out, so i had to quickly get another job, and i had a big suitcase!

but not as bad as the time I first came to harbin,
i had about 300 dollars left after the world cup, a month of drinking and clubbing, and a bit of football too!!!
I felt that this money would go much further in China than Korea, so i hopped on the ferry and searched a few jobs, got a few offers, but wasnt happy, headed up to harbin with about 2oo yuan and one contact, but i wasnt sure if i would get the job or not
i did, so i was lucky, but hell no prob if i didnt, i can survive!

and i also have a bank loan, which i have nearly paid off!! (soon)

spidey · Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:28 am Post subject:

Yes of course, we should plan ahead and be prepared if we plan on traveling or working abroad. And yes, most people think that it's crazy if we leave ourselves open to potential problems with no back up plan...

But I have to say...the rate on economical change is much faster than the rate of human change. "What the "beep" does that mean?", are you saying?

Well...us as humans have been venturing out into this world with little more than what we could carry on our backs since the beginning. Where would our society be if it wasn't for those venturous types? Even though times have changed doesn't mean that we have. Some people see it as a great challenge to go out into the world with only our wits to sustain us. Does this mean that they are out to get us or to disrupt the flow of things? I don't think so.
The world is still a challenge to us no matter how modern our society or how advanced our economy supposedly is.

S

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Maybe we hail from different planets, or a new war is on - one between have'nots and haves.
For the record: I don't have a fat bank account at all. What I have got now on my account is the plain minimum to survive for some time if circumstances are unfriendly. I have no family to ask for any material help; should I fall foul of China I shan't be able to go back to my relatives' homes. End of my story. I have to fend for myself, and I have always had to.

I don't think people you venture out of America on a shoestring are modern heroes and heroines; adventurers they may be, but they are reckless and much worse.

Let me add that I have plenty of backpacker experience; I probably experienced a lot more hardships than any ten of you combined. I toured the whole of Africa, Europe and almost all of asia, most of the time solo. I had to be somewhat ingenious if I wanted to keep my few possessions.
in India at that time, there were hundreds if not thousands of stranded westerners who had wasted their savings on those prized Afghan smokes that would have earned them a rendez-vous with the gallows had they made it to Singapore... under the circumstances, their own embassies refused to bail them out by lending them money to continue their trips or to return home.
And in Africa I had to show consular staff that I had on me a certain amount of funds in cash or TCs - if I remember correctly, the threshold was set at U.S.$ 2000 at that time (today it would have to be double though the threshold has in fact vanished.
Travel certainly wasn't easy in those days, and it was more expensive to top it off. I don't see why fresh college graduates believe they are a new crop of J. Kerouacs on the road to Shangri-La.

Lastly I wonder whether you can appreciate why Asians and Africans find it unfair that YOU can tour their countries at their expense while they have to meet the most rigorous immigration criteria just to visit any Western country.
Herein lies the rub: if they arrive on the shores of our wealthy havens they are put in concentration camps for asylum seekers pending repatriation or possible assimilation as approved refugees. You on the other hand expect, and get, a red carpet rolled out in front of you. Fair??? I don't think so! Perhaps this is why TEFLers have such a bad reputation in Asia?

benno · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 501 Location: Fake Mongolia

donfan · Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 217

Roger the difference is that most people from third-world countries have no job or no way to earn a lving when they move to a different country. They usually rely on the government for handouts.

People from English-speaking countries who go to live in other countries have a marketable skill to offer and usually won't be a burden on the society. I'm not talking about people who are in it for the adventure or the backpacker experience and rely on teaching English for money to travel on. Then I agree with you 100%

For people who move overseas primarily for job purposes I understand fully. The only thing I would suggest is that they line up a job before they leave so they do not find themselves stranded.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

deezy · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:05 am Post subject:

I know what it's like to be rich, it's better than being poor..which compared to most Australians is what I am at the moment.

"Life" deals blows which one cannot foresee. My husband was rich before his first wife got sick. He ended up going bankrupt because of all the medical fees for her daily pathology, $500 a day (which wasn't covered by Medicare or health insurance) over a three year period until she died. Lost his top management job. When we met he was in dire straits.

Not long after we married I got sick, with the very same illness that killed his first wife. Ironic. I recovered after major surgery. I had been self employed, so was unable to work, and shortly afterwards HE got sick, nearly died, and lost HIS job again.

We sold my house, lived off the profits until we both got jobs again. So, at a time in our lives when we should be sitting pretty, we are starting over, with nothing.

None of the above could have been planned for, foreseen. We are climbing out of the pit of poverty, we were lucky to have friends who would invite us round for a free feed at times.

When I came to China I made sure I had a return ticket. Paid for by credit card. Again, how could I foresee that within a week I would be in hospital, having had severe injuries in an accident...thus not being paid! For 4 months I had limited income. Luckily I was insured, but not for loss of wages. And the return ticket was useless because I couldn't walk! And my husband couldn't come over because he'd have lost his job!!

I dislike black and white judgementalism. There are always several sides to a story. "Life" often gets in the way of the best plans. No one should judge another. Young people have a really tough time getting work these days, in whatever country. They often have no choice but to 'peddle' their skills in other countries. An alternative would be to spend years becoming more and more disallusioned trying to find a job. It's not like the sixties; when I was in college in the late sixties, company representatives were coming into the college begging the students to leave college and come and work for them, lots of incentives, day release, etc. etc.

Roger, you have been rather patronising in your condemnation of people such as I. You cannot know each person's reasons for doing what they do.

Aramas · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:54 am Post subject:

For me it's a question of retaining control over my own life. The prospect of being in a job where I was unable to say 'no' due to financial dependence is anathema.

I at all times retain the right to just walk away. I will not allow myself to be exploited or manipulated. It's pointless to attempt to negotiate from a position of total dependence, and the unscrupulous can smell dependence from the other side of the world. Such concerns are particularly relevent in the notoriously exploitative TEFL industry.

I'm no one's b*tch.

deezy · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject:

I agree, Aramas, that's why for most of my life I've been self employed. I prefer to be in charge of my own destiny. (as far as possible!).

It came home to me just today, when I supported one of the teachers, and I was told that if I didn't toe the line I'd lose my job, .... and I realised that it was I who was in the position of strength...because I can leave whenever I want, I have a home to go back to, a return ticket, and although my husband and I are not rich, I don't desperately need the job.

So the threat had absolutely no impact on me.

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

Aramas · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:37 pm Post subject:

Another point that makes we wonder is whether or not our self-proclaimed 'adventurers' supplement their indefatigable derring-do with the certain knowledge that any problems can be instantly overcome with a prompt phone call to daddy.

Perhaps we grown-ups prefer a little more cash in reserve in order to avoid the embarrassment of that dreaded prodigal son scene. I've done it twice in my life, and the last time was about 15 years ago. I'm not planning on doing it again.

Of course, some of us don't have anyone to call. Think about that for a while!

go_ABs · Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 507

dialectic · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 59

Ill be going at some point --i dont think anyone could miss the opp to teach in a foreign land ---

its only a year but the experience is so much more

shmooj · Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK

We left 'home' to teach with about 5000 pounds of debt which is somewhere around US$7000. We had to get the first month's salary advanced to us when we arrived and we lived off nothing for the first few months. MOney should be the last thing that keeps you at 'home'...