Job Discussion Forums

[moonraven]

If it's all none of your business, why ask me why I find the parasite lifestyle loathsome?

You can't have it both ways.

[ls650]

[moonraven]

Sorry--you didn't answer my question, so....

[ls650]

Oh well - I guess your loathing will remain a mystery to me.

[moonraven]

I don't answer questions with loaded qualifiers such as "full of hatred"--a bit different, connotatively speaking, from "loath".

You live, apparently quite happily, with a lot of other mysteries.

[ls650]

(shrug) Yep, life is full of mysteries.

[thedude72]

What exactly qualifies as a parasite lifestyle? Just curious.

[moonraven]

Although I believe I have made myself graphically clear in regard to this several times on this forum, here it is--for the last time, maybe:

Parasites are organisms that live off other organisms. Folks who leave their home countries to hang around the Third World because it's cheaper to live there, whine because they aren't making big bucks (although they didn't have the skills to be enbtitled to big bucks in their home countries either) or, in the case of retirees, whine that life isn't as cheap as it should be (whle being too dim to realize that by living in gringo communities they push up the prices), expect to have the red carpet rolled out for their white skin, and because they don't bother to really learn the language (speak, read, write, produce) also don't bother to integrate themselves into the communities where they live (they hang with other gringos): those are parasites. I have also just described their parasite lifestyle.

[thedude72]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. It really is a shame that these parasites exist.

[Guy Courchesne]

Moonie, I wholeheartedly agree. And there is no shortage of such parasites in Latin America.

You know what I find interesting? I'm reading a book now called "Out of Control" by Kevin Kiley (Killy?) The notion of parasites is brought up repeatedly, and always in a good way. The idea that parasites 'speed up' evolution, or rather, coevolution struck a chord.

This is purely for example's sake. Perhaps parasitic behaviour serves as both an example in the so-called developing world and as an economic catalyst. Think about it. The parasitic lifestyle these foreigners live in Mexico can be our greatest embassadors showing just how terrible or great the people are in our countries, depending on the host, or people living nearby. As for being an economic catalyst, well, if the gringos drive prices higher by grouping together, that means that locals are earning a better living by servicing these gringos. Areas outside Guadalajara and Cuernavaca are great examples...Monterrey is the greatest example. There are of course, many ways to argue drawbacks and benefits, but in the end, it's a moot point anyway since it's going on, and will continue to go on as long as prices are cheaper in Mexico.

Economics has some laws that would express this in formula. What inevitably will happen is that balance will be achieved, in that either the gringos will start demanding lower, more local prices, or the phenomenon will spread, bringing all prices, everywhere, to an even keel. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but eventually, it will.

[ls650]

They sound terrible - I'm glad none of the people I work with are like that!

[M@tt]

[moonraven]

Guy--Just a couple of quick comments. It is NOT a benefit that gringos drive up the prices in those expat communities such as Aji�c, Chapala, etc. It means that folks FROM those communities can't afford to live there anymore.

Of course, you might say that can happen anywhere. I'll give one flagrant example: Santa fe, New Mexico. When I moved there in 1984, the population demographics were: 55% hispanic, 45% anglo and 10% native american(native americans had already lost their majority many years earlier). In the 10 years that followed, more and more Hollywood folks "discovered" Santa Fe as a place that was a hop, skip and jump by plane--and enmasse began to buy properties and build Hollywood's idea of a Santa Fe mansion. Folks such as Steven Spielberg, Val Kilmer and other film stars with bucks to burn, Carol Burnett and a host of other former tv stars and producers, and a few lower key types such as Sam Shepard and Ali McGraw sent the real estate prices in the area to the ionosphere. Folks who were not making big bucks (just about everybody, as New Mexico salaries were and still are among the country's lowest) and were renting were paying anywhere from 50 to 70 percent of their net income for rent. And the folks whose families had been living their for several hundred years couldn't pay their property taxes and had to move outside the city--into trailers. By 1994, the demographics were 60% anglo, 35% hispanic and 5% native american. And 10 years later--in 2004--most of the mansions built by stars have long since been advertised for sale in Architectural Digest. Prices, however, haven't decreased--nor have salaries increased and Santa Fe's approximately 15 years of fame have passed into oblivion. In this case the parasites with the big bucks did nothing positive for the community that lived in to attempt to offset the economic damage they caused. And that all happened in the US--although some folks (racists) will say that New Mexico is really a part of Mexico, so it doesn't count.

It helps to be able to analyse the negative effect foreigners have almost always had on Latin America. Try reading LAS VENAS ABIERTAS DE AM�RICA LATINA, by Eduardo Galeano if you find my logic unfathomable. It should be required reading for everyone before they are given a tourist visa to any country in Latin America.

[Guy Courchesne]

Thanks for the referral... will look for Las Venas...

It's hard to really nail down a solid viewpoint on the pros and cons of what we are calling parasitic behaviour. This kind of movement into new territory for economic or social reasons is part of human nature (think - Christopher Colombus). It's almost inevitable, inside a city, a country, or internationally. We're just about to do some similar things with Mars and the moon if I hear Bush and NASA correctly.

We can argue black and blue on the pros and cons but in the end, it's really up to goverments to put a stop to it (if they want) or the displaced, dispossed, or happy locals to decide how to react.

One thing I'll cite from experience in DF. Chilangos do a fine job on their own without foreign parasites to drive up prices in DF and around the country. Acapulco, Merida, and Cancun are good examples.

[moonraven]

Christopher Columbus represents human nature? He kicked off the first episode of genocide in this hemisphere, so I sure hope your singularly pessimistic view of human nature is not the correct one!