Job Discussion Forums

[AsiaTraveller]

"doc":

Not all TEFL certificate programmes are as flimsy as you think. One that is closest to my own heart includes a ten-week (30-hour) component course called "Cross-Cultural Communication". In that course, students do indeed learn how to apply information about language interference. And they learn where to go to find out more -- which is the true purpose of an education.

[Talkdoc]

I think everyone can make a case, theoretically, for why TEFL training is ideal for teaching in China as well as why one should possess, at the very minimum, a bachelor's degree. If we were discussing EFL teaching in the West, I would argue (as I think AsianTraveler inadvertently suggested) that, ideally, one should possess a master's degree in language, with linguistics and TESOL training.

But "This is China." My response was framed in the context of how we are currently being utilized as oral English practice teachers in China; not anywhere else. My reply, as to what is required to be a good teacher in China, was based on what I see in practice. I am sure there are exceptions and that some of us are being engaged as "real" teachers; but I don't think that is the norm; not based on what I have seen, what I have been told by others and what I have read time and time again on this forum. And the only one who addressed the context of that framework was Roger.

My previous analogy of the thorasic surgeon being underutilized as a scrub nurse is not a perfect one; because unlike the surgeon who would be confined by rather rigid operational and functional procedures, once inside the classroom, the real teacher is free to teach. But given the context of what most of us have really been hired to do here, and speaking from my own experiences, those efforts will be thwarted at every turn; at the very least don't expect them to be appreciated by anyone other than the students. For those of us who were credentialed teachers or educators back home, that appreciation may be sufficient reward with which to sustain us.

But the truth of the matter is, almost all of us are here because we have White faces and speak English natively; period. That would be the answer you would receive from the Foreign Affairs Office in Beijing, regarding what constitutes a good teacher in China, if they were being honest. "Oh, you have a 30-hour course in TEFL; how nice!" "Oh, you have master's degree in English and 10 years of high school teaching experience; that's great!" "But could you send us a photo of what you look like immediately and, if you are not a native-speaker, sorry, we can't use you in China." We can argue amongst ourselves what is ideal and what advantages a TEFL certificate holds over, for example, a master's degree in business administration until the cows come home but that is not going to influence the FAOs or our Chinese employers who run the myriad of private English language schools like paper mills and use us as little more than factory piece workers.

After over a year of teaching in China, I have been able to establish some sort of rapproachment with this environment and the realities of the context. And, given my background, I happen to currently be in the best environment possible. It appears that just as long as my students are happy, I can pretty much do whatever I want inside the classroom. And, occasionally, my suggestions are actually listened and responded to, although always in a way that is circuitous and appears unrelated to the original suggestion. And that's okay.

But I do not, at any time, kid myself; degree or no degree, highly experienced or not - I would not be here at all if my face wasn't White and if I wasn't a native speaker of English. Those are the real and only requirements for being a teacher in China. So, in practice, what really constitutes a good teacher in China is one who meets those requirements and who can also relate to the students in a personable, responsive and respectable manner. All of the rest of this is just self-promotion based on what each member perceives as his/her particular area of strength.

Doc

[Spiderman Too]

Perhaps it�s simply a question of terminology. Perhaps reclassification of many of the employment positions offered to foreigners would help to eliminate disillusion and dissatisfaction on the part of both employer and foreign employee.

I have seen �real� English teaching positions advertised in China and Thailand, by international schools. I have seen some �English teaching� positions advertised as �EFL instructor� and I think the majority of positions available for foreigners should be reclassified as such.

teacher (noun) � one who teaches, especially in a school

teach (verb) - give systematic information, instruction, or training to a person or about a subject or skill

coach (noun) � a trainer

coach (verb) � train as a coach

trainer (noun) � a person who trains

train (verb) - teach a specified skill especially by practice

I am an EFL coach. I am an EFL trainer. I am an EFL instructor. I am not an English teacher.

I have had 4 �teaching� positions in China; a short-term assignment, 2 full-time positions and 1 supplementary, part-time job. In Thailand I had 20+ �teaching� positions; 2 full-time jobs and many supplementary, part-time jobs.

I can recall that (at least) 2 of the positions were titled �EFL Instructor�; all others were �English Teacher�. However, I am not, never have been and never will be a �teacher� (unless I return to uni and do a BEd), based on the �western� concept of the profession of teaching.

While �coaching� my students, I introduce new vocabulary and explain points of grammar, but my primary role (which I am/have been assigned or which I adopt when given a free hand) is to help my students improve their use of English.

I am no different from a football or basketball coach. Sports coaches don�t teach players how to play the game; the players already know. Coaches teach players how to better play the game.

So, my current contract refers to me as Foreign English Teacher, as does my Foreigner Residence Permit. However, I am not mislead by officialdom�s need to glorify my status. I know who I am. I know what my role is. And with a student attendance rate of 105 � 110% each and every lesson (some students come back for seconds), I am confident that what I do, I do well.

[Roger]

It has been suggested we focus again on this thread's title: WHAT KIND OF TEACHER DOES CHINA NEED?
We can improve things, but we can't change ourselves. We can help our students, but not by becoming MANDARIN speakers. I can't fathom why it is necessary for us to predict our Chinese students' English mistakes all the time; in just 3 months of rubbing shoulders with Chinese teachers you will know enough. I think, my students DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THEIR ENGLISH because they believe their Chinese teachers have given them more than enough theoretical input, and now they want to practise it on you!
Have you ever noticed that our Chinese colleagues have all rather fanciful teacher qualifications, and that they derive not a little pride from this fact? They trust in their "knowledge" rather than in their skills!

So, should we merely be the listeners that anticipate their mother tongue interference and correct their Chinglish or poor pronunciation? Are we mere therapists?

I think this is putting the horse at the rearend of the cart. It is tantamount to saying we need to THINK IN CHINESE in order to UNDERSTAND the English of our students. As a matter of fact, this is how we can learn Mandarin - by listening to the Chinglish we hear or read every day. Should we further contribute to the spread of a CHinese version of English? Most emphatically: NO! And, at the level when we start teaching them they should actually have enough analytical and critical assessment techniques to understand what's wrong with their own English. Unfortunately, their own teachers "tolerate" their mangled English sentences and mispronunciations. Why is that?

So, how can we help?
We can only help if we get respected! Do you think you get the respect due to your occupational status?
I think our CHinese colleagues think of themselves as more highly trained because they strongly believe only they can explain English grammar and syntax. They do believe native English speakers never study English grammar...
What's more, even some of us subscribe to the false concept of translating when it "would help" their students. What is there to translate in English grammar terminology? Fact is that most English speakers find terms such as noun, possessive, conditional, article as alien to their vernacular as foreigners (Chinese). Of course, we don't really need to study grammar as hard as Chinese have to, but we need a theoretical grounding in it in order to learn how to describe the various functions of sentence parts. So, whether a CHinese uses a Chinese loan translation for the word "article" or whether they use the English word, i or her - a new concept. Why should that be in his native tongue where grammatical articles don't exist at all?
Aren't you guys ever at a loss of how to explain a student what's wrong with their grammar? Do you really think their mistakes are only in intonation, pronunciation? Then you must be deceiving yourself! They mu, among many things, even learn how to organise their thoughts!

Thus, we could help our students a lot better if we taught their TEACHERS rather than teaching oral lessons at various levels.
I think we should teach grammar, interpretation (or "intensive reading", I think, this is what they call it), and related subjects. And the language of instruction should be English.

Another field where we might excel is kindergartens. Not only is this the most enjoyable type of teaching environment, it is where we could lay lasting foundations. Their kindergartens are run much like the rest of their schools - highly regimented bootcamps with a strict timetable athat's chockablock full with lessons!
Not that I expect my suggestion to fall on sympathetic ears in China - but in the long run this should be, in my view, the goal of TEFL in China!

[AsiaTraveller]

[Roger]

[AsiaTraveller]

And you, Roger, are becoming an English teacher of Chinese learners (yes, even after ten years). That's also a never-ending process. I hope you do see it as a process that's full of change and development.

[Brian Caulfield]

I think before you try to decide what is the best methodology for teaching English in China you must look at the how the students are taught by the Chinese. I often look at learning how to swim as an analogy to learning English . This summer I watched a Chinese swimming teacher put terror into one of his students . His method was to take the child to the deep end of the pool and then let them go . The child swims but hates the whole process . The same is done in the English class . There is no respect for acquisition order . Instead of teaching what the student is capable of assimulating they are overly challenged by by the Chinese teacher who really doesn't have a grasp of what they are teaching and is just trying to impress the students . For example instead of teaching the simple common word the Chinese teacher teaches the big word that is seldom used. They are taught perfect past tense before they have a grasp of simple past tense .
My biggest complaint here and everywhere in schools is that students learn not to make mistakes . Schools are a place where mistakes must be tolerated . We learn through our mistakes . Without mistakes how do we as teachers know what to teach ? I am always seeing test given to my students where the majority fail . This serves no purpose for the students and the teachers . The students are discouraged and the teacher has no idea of what needs to be taught.
I find that the teaching style here emphasizes chorus work . Students generally have good pronunciation but have terrible listening skills . So as a FT we must fill this gap and teach our students to listen . The most important task we have is to make learning English fun for the Chinese student . The student must find the FT class a secure non threatening environment .

[Roger]

[Roger]

[AsiaTraveller]

Roger,

If you had read my last few posts with some degree of comprehension, you would have understood that becoming a teacher is a never-ending process, and that we are always engaged in it. Well, at least some of us are. Students change through learning; so do their teachers.

Thanks for your kind words about Bali. However, I'm currently in California training some trainers. I'm also taking a course. I'll return to India in January. It's a never-ending process of learning how to adapt to changing needs and to improve my skills.

And how was your weekend?

[Brian Caulfield]

Roger learning not to make mistakes means that they don't take chances . Mistakes mean lower marks to a student . They learn to be quiet .
I am comparing the pronunciation to that of Korean and Japanese students who I have also taught . I don't think chorusing is all that bad. It is a good way for teaching the shy beginning student . It is non threatening .

[Roger]

[Roger]

Brian,
you know there is another thread in response to this one. Some folks want to remind us we are here only guests, and we should try to ingratiate ourselves with the powers that be. Those powers decide on what is best for their students.
Are students ever asked?
Do they want to study a foreign language?

Herein lies the reason for the malaise. Those powers are ignorant and unprofessional. Uncaring to the maximum.
They are mentally inert, unable to change what needs changing. What does need changing? Mindsets.

Officially., FTs are in China SO WE (the Chinese English teachers) CAN LEARN FROM YOU. Verbatim from an educationist I asked years ago.
But, nothing has changed over the past years except for cosmetic Nicer and newer buildings, but equally empty libraries. Nice and new computers and video equipment, but often broken down when a FT wants to use it (but it works when a Chinese teacher needs it).
Salaries have been increased a little. A nice cosmetic operation. And Chinese teachers go on jaunts to Thailand or Australia - at public expense. Again, a nice cosmetic change.

But the classrooms are still cramped, with 60 students or more per room. You can't walk down an aisle without toppling over a couple of thermos flasks on the desks of students.

Students still are monitored virtually 24 hours a day.

They don't learn what to do with their own spare time because their silly Chinese teachers assign them so much homework these poor buggers bury themselves up behind a pile of textbooks in their classrooms. Not that they are actually learning. But they learn to make believe.

They don't even sit regular exams; these exams are designed to show how meek and sheepish they are - following orders, obeying the diktats of the powers that be, and as a recompense, they all pass even though they copy from one another, using in extreme cases mobile phones.

They don't learn English - they only learn vocabulary and a few phrases and the grammar rules.

They read aloud every day, making a hell of a noise and believing this is "learning English". It is the main reason why they have such fossilised bad pronunciation.

So, why hasn't any suggestion from us been taken up in over 20 years of FTS teaching in China?

Again, we are here so that Chinese can learn how to teach more effectively.

What other reason for employing foreign nationals would be legitimate? None, as far as I can see!

[Brian Caulfield]

Roger you got to work around it . I am moving my classes into the cafeteria because of the lack of space in my classes. I had many classes outside . Played running dictation and the students appreciate my student centered classes .
I just ignore the Chinese English teachers. Let's face it if you know English you don't work as a teacher for small money in China .
Only 95 days left in my contract.