Job Discussion Forums

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

the term Racism is being bandied about rather loosely here, as a convenient catch-all that automatically exposes the target to utter vilification, as well as all those who are associated with them. But
it's really not such a clearly defined issue, nor does responding with
hate solve anything.

Why are we here in China teaching English at all? They have Chinese teachers who can do that, who understand grammar as well as any
native speaker (let's face it, on average, they probably know more
about the rules of grammar than the average ESL monkey, myself included). Nationality is our marketing advantage (native speaking
ability, hopefully not race). We are exploiting the Chinese demand for native speakers as a way to polish their abilities and boost their economic power. Otherwise they would be content to pay crap wages to
qualified local teachers.

I hate racism but I'm trying to survive. I'm not going to quit my job because someone gets their boxers twisted over being discriminated against in the world's most populous, "homogenous" country. What did you
expect? There was never any Chinese Emancipation Proclamation ("Sorry, I don't listen to hip hop!"). These people are alread oppressed,
so an agitated foreigner really provide much except entertainment (except as it pertains to investment. You want to be treated with respect? Drop 500,000 RMB into a joint venture).

The very idea that China should adopt western values by virtue of their democratic principles is simplistic and pollyanic. Righteous indignation means nothing in a place without morals as you know them. PS ass kicking? Who is the one filled with hate?

And if you want to really debate race, who is keeping the N word alive?
Studies have shown that subordinate groups are the ones keeping the fences up. Not the superordinate groups. My point is, it's easy to call someone racist, and it's easy to wrap yourself in that flag and go to war. But it's not easy spotting the enemy. First look in the mirror.

myesl · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject:

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

i'm with you. at my last school, the teacher in charge of hiring foreigners asked me to review a couple of resumes for him, for future hirings. i came across one from cameroon, and it indicated that the guy also spoke french. i was asked if this meant he was from canada, i said no, cameroon.
"where's that" i was asked. "africa" i say.

"i don't like black people, i don't trust them"

there you go. from that moment on, i lost all respect i had for this guy. up until that point we actually got along.

here in china, if i'm in a foul mood for whatever reason, i find it's better for me to stay at home. because when i get stared at non-stop, especially by some slack-jawed gawker that CAN'T turn their eyes away for even a second, i get a bit aggressive. might have bad consequences in the end....

best of luck in getting a new job.

Spiderman Too · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:27 am Post subject:

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Laodeng,

thanks for your pointed stance on Chinese English teachers' grasp of English grammar! I really want the powers-that-be to know that the majority of Chinese teachers have deplorably poor teaching skills and a lacklustre grasp of the architectural underpinnings that support an English text or speech, and that includes GRAMMAR AND SYNTAX.
Not one of my 120 university students who knows that proper names have to be written with CAPITAL initials! Not even "chinese" is written with a capital 'C' although everyone does write 'English" with a big 'E'... What goes wrong?

And, who puts such ungrammatical English into the brains of Chinese as "I means that..."?

I shouldn't rant too much about my Chinese colleagues; I have rubbed shoulders with quite a few nice ones. A minority are in fact totally competent at English - but they seldom have the respect they deserve because their underachieving peers set the standards, and those who want to teach do so because they have failed to get a well-paying job in the private sector. Teaching is for slackers, really - they are, after all, civil servants, and you know what 'civil servants' in a socialist community means - they are lording it over society at large.

There should be a fundamental change - foreign teachers who teach grammar, writing and other subjects, and who set new standards!
Standards that cannot be modified by principals under pressure from wealthy parents!

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

Roger,

Many thanks for the kind comments. It's nice to feel validated.

But I'm not particularly bullish about the prospects of either principals or parents seeing the light before I finally hang it up. There are just too many people with a vested interest in keeping things exactly the way they are.

When I touch on a point of grammar in the classroom, I feel more like a deprogrammer than a teacher . . . in short, I must
unteach them. Damned near impossible.

ymmv · Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 387

Tamil_Tiger · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject:

To clarify Atlas, I wasn't trying to vilify anyone or project hate on to anyone with my previous post in this thread.

To me it seems there are 2 choices for dealing with discrimination.

1. Move on, try to go somewhere and create a good reputation of non-white foreigners in china and they'll likely be more employable in the future. I read a post on an expat job site from a school in Anhui province that wanted Indian teachers as they had good experiences with them in the past.

2. Fight the system. 2 options here.

a. try to appeal to the conscience of fellow esl teachers and try to get them not to work at that school

b. If you can't win em over by appeals , and you feel reckless, make an example of one, to scare people away.

I don't think option b is really worth it (I personally don't think that a job here is worth it enough to take risks and pull something like this. Maybe if my livelihood depended on it I would) , but I think if someone did it and didn't get caught, then it would be fairly successful tactically speaking.

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

ymmv, many thanks. A little less than classic, but from the heart. And born of despair.

oiboy · Joined: 05 Mar 2004 Posts: 142 Location: Middle China

Ialsofind that in China teachers use a very linear approach to teaching instead of focusing on meta-cognitive development as we do in North America. Creativity is shunned. Students loose interests. We step in and teach these classes. What a positive environment! I have seen quite a few teachers though who are breaking the "mold" of drill instructor here. They are actually willing to try new things and evoke thought from the students. A very powering thing here, as its not usually expected here.

Atlas · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 662 Location: By-the-Sea PRC

Myesl wrote:

peterpaul · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 36 Location: Shanghai

Just a minor interjection and clarification:.

Web International is a franchise, and the PuDong school is owned and operated from a different set of investors than the corporate headquarters in XuJiaHui. I cannot comment on the PuDong school's policies based on hearsay. However, I can state that I have seen little, if any, evidence of racism in terms of hiring at this location. The Xu Jia Hui center currently employs an African American as a full time teacher and a North African as an occasional English Corner host.

Nuff' Said...