Job Discussion Forums

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

Contemporary Dog wrote:

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I am a little concerned that the folks who call TEFL a farce seem to put all the blame for that on school owners and managers--even on entire countries.

I happen to believe that for the most part, yes, it's a farce--but that the blame lies at least 50% on the folks passing themselves off as teachers who are not educators, but in many cases just folks who couldn't get a job better than McDonald's in their home countries. When they combine with school owners and managers who are also not educators but improvisors cashing in on the current, apparent, boom in EFL--how could the result be other than a McSchool?

Teacher in Rome · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 1286

Brava!

Well said, Moonraven.

thehairyhorse · Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 33 Location: Chile

but who really cares if it�s a mcschool anyway?
Not I?
I just want some easy cash to bum around the world on - get pissed , smoke dope , have a laugh and teach a few lessons ...
What�s wrong with that?
The same as all jobs really
- if the students want to learn english they will regardless.....

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

basiltherat · Joined: 04 Oct 2003 Posts: 952

Definition of a farce: A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery

When it comes down to it, nearly all jobs are a farce. Take being prime minister of the UK , for example.

My brother, who is a bank dealer in a prominent merchant bank in New York, thinks his job is a farce. His colleagues mostly concur. Only difference is that he's far better paid than we are.

We should just get on with whatever we have decided to do in life and not worry about what others may think of what we do. After all, what matters really is how much we are enjoying ourselves and how professionally we are bringing up our family. I do a job and do it as well as I am expected to do it but it's not something that I dwell on a lot. There's more - much more - to life than a job ... and working only 25 hours a week makes it possible to think about those things more often than my brother can.
Things might change, but life is pretty good considering right now.
basil

Mouse · Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 208

Well said Basil. I absolutely agree with you.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Some of us believe that another world is not only possible, but necessary.

biffinbridge · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years

I think this is an ok job for a while but as we get on in life I think we teflers face some pretty tough decisions.I've been doing this for 10 years and got into it by accident having left the merchant banking world after 2 years of complete boredom.Now I'm 34,divorced and have a son to support.It is not an easy thing to do on most efl salaries so I now find myself trapped in and around the Middle East chasing the dollar to support my dependents.I look to the future aghast at having to spend the next x years in this region and have been looking for a way out for a while now.Thankfully ,I think my exit from EFL is just over the horizon and I'm looking forward to getting out in the next 2 years once I've saved the money to finance my plan.My current position in an oil company in Libya should enable me to do that.Do I regret going into this game?No.I had a bloody good laugh doing this,travelled all over the place,lived a life of hedonism and excess,(and survived) and avoided the mundane 9 to 5 that most of my friends back home do nothing but moan about.Is the industry a joke?Largely yes.I've never come across so many shoddy employers and bullshi**ers in all my life.The pay is mostly insulting,the contracts often meaningless and half the stuff you learn in workshops is a total load of chod.And what of the future?I've come across so many 50 something year olds shi**ing their pants as they approach retirement age and don't have a pot to pish in and that's something most lifers will have to face one day.I reckon it's about knowing when to quit and I think as long as you get out before..let's say about 40 you've got a chance.I've enjoyed most of my teaching positions and in general put a lot of effort into what I've done,often in difficult circumstances..(yeah I've worked in the 'Venice' of Northern Poland,the 'Little Switzerland of Bohemia','Doha the Pearl of the Gulf', 'rip-off Britain' and the 'Great People's Jamirayah'.)Yeah this industry can be a farce but so is working 65 hours a week and spending another 20 just getting to work so I guess it's a trade off.That's all I have say really. Gotta go...the surf's up in Thailand.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

No need to mess one's pants at 50. That's when I started in EFL. Ten years ago.

Deconstructor · Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 775 Location: Montreal

TEFL is without doubt the biggest Mickey Mouse industry in the world. It is the only industry where the less you know the better your chances of getting hired. It is the only industry where racism, sexism, ageism is more rampant than a scourge. It is the only industry where the patrons know less about teaching than absolutely anyone else in the world.

To become a qualified teacher is a great thing; to do it and spend all that time, money and energy only to teach overseas will set you up for a major disappointment as every snot-nosed 18 year old who has to look up the word TEACH in the dictionary, who has been in class only by force, and reads on grade six level, will be given ample consideration for a teaching job by some half wit, fifth grade level educated, scam artist who calls him/herself a language school owner. You, on the other hand, who have a M.A. in TESL, have read countless research papers on what works and doesn't work in class, who have spent countless hours teaching as part of your training and have another three to five year teaching experience at high shcools, colleges and/or universities will be told that you are over qualified, or if you are hired, your pay will be much lower than the above mentioned "teachers". You shall scratch your head and wonder, but not for long as you shall come to the realization that the overseas TEFL industry may be about many things, but one thing that it has never been about and will never be about is TEACHING!!!!

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Deconstructor · Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 775 Location: Montreal

Dear C, no need to feel sorry. First, I am no longer part of overseas ESL industry. While I was, I made pretty good money, relatively speaking. And anyone who bit me did it out of love.

As far as TEFL goes, any industry that respects CELTA, DELTA or the like over B.Ed and M.A. TESL must be painted with the broad brush if only to cover the ugly colors that it displays.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Hmm...well, I still take exception to the broadness of your statement. I do a lot of work here in Latin America moving teachers into positions, in language courses, and in TEFL training. I don't see how the 'industry', as you put it, respects the CELTA or DELTA over a B.Ed and M.A. TESL. The 'industry' the way you put it, would have to be organizaed on a world level, with some form of governance, which it isn't. As a matter of fact, the closest form of governance you get are the education ministries of many different countries setting a lot of the standards. Private language schools are a different affair, largely ungoverned, yes.

What gets respect first and foremost is the the person - the teacher - and his or her experience. Someone with the CELTA or TEFL who has direct experience in a classroom abroad could very well get more attention that someone with an M.A. TESL and no experience. OF course, that's just one situation. It is reversed when you add experience abroad to the degree holder.

If you put yourself in the position of someone doing the hiring - and for arguments's sake, let's assume this person isn't a grade 5 dropout Wink

- There is a lot to balance when making a hiring decision. First and foremost, in the developing world, there simply isn't going to be a salary offer like you would find in the first world. That's one of the reasons we call it the developing world. Second, committment abroad is an important factor. From my experience looking at dozens (and dozens)of resumes each month, there really aren't that many with an M.A. TESL who are looking to stay abroad fro 1 year +. Perhaps 1 for every 100 CELTA or TEFL teachers. Lastly, my direct contact with a variety of DOS's around the region gives me the impression that there isn't much faith in US and Canadian degrees out here on the front lines. That's not my personal belief but I have to recognize that it comes frm somehwere and that somewhere is usually experience. My guess is that more than a few like yourself were hired, then perhaps felt that the need to try to change things - buck the existing system - and maybe caused some grief in the hierarchy(?). Bear in mind, that's a guess. Your post here on Dave's sort of confirms that.