Job Discussion Forums

[Talkdoc]

The private English language school I had worked for in Shenyang did retain my Foreign Expert Certificate; apparently, as part of some overall control issue. The university I am currently at turned over all three documents in about three weeks time; Passport, Updated Residency Permit and the FEC.

But here's the thing; in all the time I've been in China, I've never been asked to produce my residency permit; not once. I've opened up bank and telephone accounts (including ADSL), changed currency, have received and sent parcels through the China Post, have traveled within the mainland by plane and booked rooms in hotels and the only document I have ever needed was my passport. Is this atypical?

Nevertheless, I also would steer way clear of a school that is already telegraphing the need to control its employees to this extent; that can't be a good sign.

Doc

[Old Dog]

Talkdoc, You've probably got a multiple-entry Z visa in your passport, hence no questions asked and no trouble. I don't think you'd get far with the hotel clerk or at airport security with an expired single-entry Z visa. There'd be much muttering among many at the reception desk. Your single entry visa has a shelf-life of about 3 weeks after your arrival, by which time the Resident's Permit should have superseded it.

Or is it that honest face that gets you by?

[Talkdoc]

OD - It must be my honest face. I came into the country in the Fall of 2003 with a single-entry Z-Visa and have never been asked for my residency permit in all this time; Scout's Honor.

Doc

[Roger]

[kev7161]

I too have never, ever had to show my residence permit to anyone for any reason. I've needed my FE certificate when I've wanted to change money at the bank (which, by the way, I did successfully with NO hassle for the first time last week - - Bank of China, can you believe it?). I've only ever needed my passport when I've had to change money and to check into a hotel. As a matter of fact (perhaps foolhardy, I'll admit), I never even carry those documents with me.

On the other hand, I agree with most posters that I would feel wary not having these documents in my possession. They are tucked neatly away in . . . well, I won't tell you here, one never knows who's reading this, does one?

But, this is China, and different institutions will want different documentation for whatever reason. To not have them doesn't make sense.

[ShapeSphere]

[Spiderman Too]

I think Roger maybe under the impression that the majority of F.E.�s have multiple entry visas. I�m under the impression that �multis� are not uncommon in Guangdong because it�s proximity to Hong Kong makes it a popular weekend destination for F.E.s. In my part of China I have never met an F.E. with a �multi�.

As with Kev & Talkdoc, I have never been asked to show my F.R.P. to anyone; my passport (complete with expired, single-entry Z visa) has always been accepted for domestic air flights and hotel check-ins.

However, the F.R.P. is absolutely, most definitely, required to be shown (handed in) when leaving China for all of us who entered on a single-entry Z visa. By holding onto a (fore-mentioned) teacher�s F.R.P., the school in question is preventing an F.E. from leaving China without their permission FULL STOP

[KES]

Every green book (Foreigner Residence Permit) I have seen has this "Points of Attention" printed on the inside of the back cover:

"1. This permit shall be carried at all time in case of inspection"

Understand that The green book is the property of the PRC (NOT your school) and must be surrendered upon exit from the County (See point 4 ). It is never the property of your school and they haven't the right to keep it or ask you to surrender it to them.

Understand also that - some - headmasters may ask you to surrender your green book to them. I have had this happen. Not surprisingly, this request was dropped after a Police Official, at my request, visted the headmaster to enquire why the headmaster, (a foreigner) had presumed the role of a Chinese border offical.

While it is true that one should never assign to malice what is likely to be mere incompetence, it certianly calls into question the motivation, or competence, of the headmaster who would make such a demand.

In any event, NEVER give up your green book. If you do, you place yourself in legal jepardy.

BTW, the red book IS the property of the school and you should return it to them (in exchange for your official letter of termination of services, of course).

Cheers

[joe greene]

Spiderman Too has it right. Most of us aren't as fortunate as Roger, who has a 12 month mulitple-entry Z visa. How he got that golden egg, I don't know. Most of us arrive on a 30 to 90 day Z visa. After arrival, we are issued a 'green book' (the residence permit), which should terminate at least one week after the termination of your employment contract.

YOU NEED THE RESIDENCE PERMIT TO EXIT CHINA.

[Talkdoc]

Is the multiple entry Z-Visa typically difficult to obtain? I e-mailed my FAO about it and he said "no problem" - all I need to do is bring him my documents (passport, FRP, FEC) and he will fill out the paperwork and tell me where I need to take them all.

One question though - my passport comes up for renewal this June. Do I lose the multiple entry Z-Visa or is it transferred to the new passport?

Doc

[Spiderman Too]

Talkdoc

Within China a foreigner needs written consent from his/her employer, or visa sponsor, to obtain a multiple-entry 'Z' visa. With such consent, it is a relatively easy process which takes 1 week and costs 600 RMB (possibly more for Americans).

Getting a new passport does not invalidate a visa; see Roger's & echo2004sierra's messages under "Visa Office Chaos"

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=17700

A passport must have at least 6 months validity (at the time of application) in order to obtain a visa and/or visa extension/renewal.

[Roger]

Nah, I wasn't angry when I wrote my latest reply.

It amuses me that some may be so bored by their uninspiring class textbooks that they find the imprint on their residence permit so edifying as to memorise it.
May I ask them: what, if it said, "any foreigner resident in China must at all times keep their residence permit in fragrant condition" would they do? Buy some Oilaz and sprinkle it over the green book once in a while?

Yes, if your green book is in lieu of your work visa, then, by all means, carry it on you at all times, AND NEVER LOSE IT!

But, as we have discovered only over the past couple of years or so, this is a NEW METHOD of the PSB to grant us our coveted resident status: they apparently grant us the residence permit in lieu of the formerly famous work visa. The work visa, as some have told here time and again, is valid only for a limited period, perhaps prior to you obtaining the green booklet. That's why it may be of paramount importance when you cross the border.

As someone pointed out, I have a multiple-entry work visa plus a residence permit; the work visa expires at the end of my contractual term next summer, as does my residence permit. Thisd is how the authorities have been doing things for years.
As for the question, how to get a multiple-entry visa, I have dealt with it in other threads: I had to pay the balance between a single-entry and multiple-entry visa, which was pretty stiff (around 625 kuai). The employer only paid for the basic visa and the medical examination. Personally I found this arrangement somewhat unusual; surely my employer should bear the cost for a multiple-entry visa. But then again, many in the inland never get a multiple-entry visa. There seem to be different regimen in place. I need a multiple-entry visa because I pick up my snail mail in Hong Kong, and I am registered at the consulate of my country there rather than in Shanghai (no consulate in Guangzhou).

In TalkDOc's case - a passport expiring before the visa does - let me explain what happened to me in an identical situation:
I was given a brand-new passport in Hong Kong, while my old passport still had a valid visa that I wanted to use for several more months.
The consulate punched conspicuous holes into all passport pages and stamped several pages with "Cancelled"; I had to produce both my old and new passports at the border. The Immigration official checked the old passport to see whether my visa was valid, and whether the particulars were identical to those entered in my new passport. Then he chopped a page in my new passport.
Disclaimer: Struelle (Steve) in Shanghai had a vastly different experience. Apparently, the officials at the PSB were less than knowledgeable, and more than greedy - making him pay a fine for I never understood what reason.

[Sinobear]

WTF Roger??????


The OP said that his employer wanted to keep his FRP. According to the PSB (and I know a score of them in various cities - hell, I used to drink with the Chief of Police in Beijing) you should always have your FRP on your person. Yes, I've been here in China more than 6 years and I've never been asked to produce my FRP, but I know it's far more important than my passport and FEC.

Spiderman Too was most correst (as always) a few posts ago: your FRP supercedes your passport (whist in China) and can get a hotel room, travel in China, you can go swimming, ride horses, and eat in a restaurant without embarrassment with it.

Newbies, never let your employer keep your FRP. Never.

Roger, you need to rebuild your credibility (or stop drinknig at lunch).

Cheers!