Job Discussion Forums

[yaco]

Hamish, I read with interest your remarks about teachers taking interest to spend time with their students outside of class. Especially taking the opportunity to visit students homes, communities, etc.

While I agree with your sentiments, it is not necessarily that simple . Two work colleagues ( married Australian couple in their 50's ) planned to spend part of their winter holiday as a guest at a students parent's house. Unfortunately the school found out and ' Lo and Behold' travelled to the students parents house, advised my colleagues that it was improper to stay at this residence and moved them into a hotel overnight at the school's expense. ( And this student's house was 3 hours from the school ).

The school's justification was they were concerned about my colleagues safety !!!!!!!! I can think of many safer places than a Chinese hotel.

My school is concerned about me because I have Chinese friends who live in housing estates and the like. The school feels that my safety is threatened. 'So much for embracing Chinese culture.'

[Jed]

Chinasyndrome wrote:-

[chinasyndrome]

Jed made a good point about how willing schools are to have open discussion. Honest injun, a lot of what I hear about 'face' from FTs is off the mark from what I've found here and what my Chinese family tell me. 'Face' might change from city to city in subtle ways. However, an approach I've used very successfully is the 'drop by drop' method of giving information - just like they do to us.

See, maybe they're not all being sly; maybe the 'say a little, say a little, say a little more' thing is a subtle cultural thing. Used to drive me nuts! They ask your opinion and then after you've given it you get more info which is opposite to what they gave you before.

So here's what I do. Say a little, say a little. say a little more. Get small agreements at each step. Once you've got it, review what's been agreed to, and you'll usually find that you got all or most of what you wanted. Ask questions to open your comments. We'd call them 'loaded' questions, but that's the way they do it.

'Are you interested in having teachers improve their English?'
'Dui.'
'Me too, and I hope I can help you do it.'
'Do you think training is important for them?'
'Dui.'
'How important?' etc

Okay, it's tooth-pullingly slow but this is a land where time is time and money in money.

Oops! Late for a meeting. Back soon!

[wOZfromOZ]

G'day all.

I wanted to get some more info on these 'd' VISAS please. "ESL Guru" - if you wouldn't mind mate, it'd be much appreciated.

About the longer term contract commitments, I've just signed my 3rd contract with the same mob. They've given large pay increases but these have come at a price. We're now required to teach a minimum of 20 hours per week instead of 16.

They've got a sliding pay scale for teaching experience, esl qualifications, higher degrees, 'masters', etc. Aswell as this, monthly minimum pays increase for the first 3 years. 1000Y/month

They're starting a (max)10% of annual salary bonus scheme at the end of the year if you satisfy certain criteria in week to week teaching and extra ciricular stuff.

All sounds good but a couple of us worked it out and we were better off
under the old scheme. The new contracts dont allow us to have any other employers (for one example) and we're also responsible for our own tax.

YES - The TAX issue again. Now we've got to pay for any salary earned above 4000Y.

SO,
They give with one hand and take with the other hey! (Typically Chinese)

Happy Days

wOZfromOZ

[Minhang Oz]

Similar to Woz, I now have to pay tax on my salary over 4000, but at 10% I can handle that. I know ESL Guru said contracts over one year were illegal, but so are lots of things people do openly here. I was offered a choice of 1, 2, or 3 years renewal. I opted for 2, which was a good move, as they've since cut the salary for new contracts by 1000 pm, and added utilities as a teacher responsibility. Plus they wrote in an unconditional 8000 a year bonus, so I'm about 20000 a year ahead,
I think the cliche is "a win-win situation".
I'm also interested in the "D" visa story -who knows more?

[China Plate]

Thanks CS for your PM about this thread. I don't know what use my input will be, but I'll give it a shot.

I have only been in China for a few months, so I must concede that there are many people here far more qualified to comment on the Chinese rules and regulations, etc.

On my first trip here, January-March this year, I visited about a dozen schools in the north, south and east of China. I also contacted about two dozen others by phone and email.

My experiences with the majority of these was that they did not want to sign a contract for more than one year. Further, the Chinese calendar seemingly had only ten months in a year. The rationale was, at first, that the PSB would only allow one year at a time.

When I pressed the point, I was told that I could sign another contract after one year. At the beginning of the next academic year. The contract was for an ACADEMIC year. Of course, I wouldn't be paid for the holidays.

In essence, it is a way around paying for holidays. And, because the contract wasn't for a full CALENDAR year, I would not get a return air ticket.

However, the schools "would help me through the holidays." They would give me extra work, not part of the contract, so I could earn money while I was waiting to sign the new contract.

I politely declined all these offers, even though I can understand the business logic behind them. As an educational administrator in Australia, I was aware of the trend of TAFE colleges, and many private schools, adopting the same principles of the academic year, and fractional contracts, to cut down on wages bills, while maximising funding grants.

However, I also found that there were other schools that were prepared to sign the contract for the full twelve months, or six months, as opposed to the "five-month" half-year. The school I am at now signed a contract with me for a six-month half-year, even though there was the May Day break, and two months summer holidays, in the middle of it.

They also sent me a oneway ticket, fully paid for by the school, before I left Australia, because they were aware of the failure of my previous school to pay this as promised on my first trip. I had three other schools also faxed me copies of contracts signed by them, with the promise of the same conditions.

One school in the north was prepared to sign a contract of anything up to 24 months, with a substantial bonus at the end of it. Other schools also stated that they could sign contracts over one year, but still wanted me to work through the holidays, because "all the other teachers do. It is better for you."

So, I feel that the long term contracts are available, and probably legal. I also feel that many of the schools use the excuse "it is illegal" for several reasons. One is the cost-saving. Another is that they are buying an unknown commodity, ie the FT. Many of the schools have been stung by FTs before, and are wary. Shorter contracts give them the opportunity to get rid of teachers, or to try new blood later.

Lastly, I don't know if this is just my paranoia, but I get the impression that the local government officials, and school administrators, don't want FTs getting too friendly with the locals. The official line is that "it is for your own safety." I have been told not to have female teachers alone in my room, and no visitors at all after 10.30 pm. ( I have ignored this last, because a good drinking session doesn't even START until 10.30).

But my own feeling is that they may, possibly, fear that we will instill some sort of free thinking, and bad western morale, in the local population . Like binge-drinking, chain-smoking, spitting and womanising. Longer term contracts would increase the possibility of this happening.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this point. As I said, I am only new to China, and am still getting used to the culture shock. I would welcome being set straight on this matter by more experienced FTs.

[Roger]

I think you have done first-rate research. Still, some of your findings need some clarification.
- ACADEMIC YEAR versus CALENDAR YEAR: Basically, public schools pay you for ten months but they do hire you for twelve months. The visa will be valid, typically, from September to September, covering the summer holiday season.
Pay differs from the salary for CHinese in that Chinese get paid for twelve months. The rationale offered for this discrepancy is that we get airfare paid, which normally accounts for two monthly salaries.

- - Long-term employment opportunities: I think schools are free to sign you up for three years, but the PSB will have to approve your employment every year anew! Thus, a long-term contract is probably not legal although it seems to offer you more jmob security. It would be interesting to know whether the PSB get to see the same contract that you sign, or whether the school shows them a standard one-year contract (which you ought to sign too before the pSB approve it). I do not know, just curious!

- The Paranoia thing, I can attest to that. It is a relict from the more socialist glorious past of Maoist Cathay when no concubines and extramarital affairs existed (with the exception of the ladies that catered to the special needs of the helmsman himself).
Nowadays it is often conveniently forgotten how prudish this society had been for around 5 decades. However, the bad old habits that the communists wanted to eradicate - polygamy - are stealthily creeping back!

[China Plate]

Roger

Thank you for your comments. They certainly clarify some things that I was unsure of. No doubt, there are many more things I will learn as I go along. Forums such as this will be of great benefit in this regards, especially with help such as from yourself and other professionals in here.

With the regards to whether the PSB see the same as what we see. First hand experience on that one!!

The first school that brought me here, along with seven other Australians that I met, and some others that I did not, told us to come in on tourist visas. The guarantee was there, from the Australian agent, that every thing was in order.

They later told us we were illegal, and used the threat of PSB to try to make us sign different contracts, more hours, less pay. Eventually, they called the PSB in, and we were all fingerprinted and questioned at great length. My passport was taken, and I believe the other teachers' passports were as well.

Through the consulate in Shanghai, the PSB finally agreed that the school had shown them different contracts than what we had seen. We got our passports back, and myself and four other teachers eventually managed to get the school to agree to terminate the contracts without penalty. we then went home. Three stayed to slug it out.

I think this incident went to the extreme, but it did show that this school, at least, did what you referred to in your post.

As for the polygamy... I think I could live with that...

[Hamish]

[China Plate]

[China Syndrome has been banned.]

Now what do we do for intellectual stimulation?

Elsie? You there?[/quote]

[China Plate]

Just when this thread was getting interesting...

Mess with one Aussie, you mess with the lot...

Hey, Sunaru...

I'm with you guys. Got room for another one on the bandwagon?