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sherrymole
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: Adult ESL Teaching Salaries |
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I am almost done with my MA-TESOL, and have been looking for teaching jobs. I have done some volunteer teaching, but would like to get paid teaching experience: 1. because this will be my career and I should be getting some kind of salary (I'm not expecting a lot...but it's hard to pay the rent when you're not getting paid), and 2. because some interviewers for paying jobs (at intensive ESL programs) didn't seem too impressed by the volunteer teaching experience I had.
So, I have two questions:
1. Why do many organizations seem to think it's okay not to pay their teachers (or not to pay them enough)? Don't these programs get grants? Shouldn't the grants include teacher salaries?
2. Have other new teachers had difficulties transitioning from volunteer teaching into paid teaching?
thanks,
Mary
p.s. From 7/29/2004 NYTimes http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/29/nyregion/29english.html:
"We have the space (for an ESL program), but we can't hire the teachers - we just don't have the money."
Really. What is the point of having a program if teachers can't be paid.
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Adult ESL Teaching Salaries |
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| sherrymole wrote: |
| 1. Why do many organizations seem to think it's okay not to pay their teachers (or not to pay them enough)? Don't these programs get grants? Shouldn't the grants include teacher salaries? |
Many organizations think it's okay to not pay teachers or not pay them enough because they can get away with it. Whether or not programs get grants depends on the area, I suppose.
| sherrymole wrote: |
| 2. Have other new teachers had difficulties transitioning from volunteer teaching into paid teaching? |
Many, many teachers have the same problem. A lot of jobs go to friends (where Masters degrees are required they are going to the friends who have the credentials). A lot of teachers find they have to go overseas to work for a few years before getting anything like a decent job in North America. But a lot of universities require experience and publications before they will hire someone (Korea is an exception- there are jobs posted on this site for universities in Korea every day or so). So teachers with graduate degrees often end up doing the same things as people without graduate degrees for a few years- teaching in Asia (overseas teaching experience is very useful in this area of work). The problem is that teaching English outside of the post-secondary education system in Asia and teaching English in North America are two very, very different things. Still, it's something to put on the resume in terms of teaching experience.
I think the main reason that organizations in North America want overseas work experience is so that they know the teacher has lived in a very foreign environment and can empathise with the students in terms of culture fatigue, feeling isolated etc. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Also, could you copy and paste that NY Times news article into the body of a message. |
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sherrymole
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Also, could you copy and paste that NY Times news article into the body of a message. |
I just emailed them for permission. Hopefully they won't have a problem with letting me post it here.
Thank you for your advice and feedback about teaching. I am trying not to get frustrated, but some days it's hard to keep a positive attitude about the situation. I am planning to work overseas, but that has to wait until after December when I graduate. In the meantime, I know I just have to keep pursuing opportunities here, and I'll find something soon, I hope.
Mary |
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talawanda
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:39 am Post subject: Volunteers |
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Dear Mary, did it ever occur to you that while you were volunteering, working for free, that you might be taking away a possible position from someone in the very situation in which you find yourself now and will remain in until you retire (i.e.cannot find an ESL position in the Good Ole USA which pays you well enough to stay here which means you must leave said USA if you wish to use your degree to support yourself and not face the fact that it was all a waste of time and $- in large part because of volunteers like yourself? Now you are faced with the nitty-gritty of attempting to teach ESL in your Homeland. Did any of your college professors enlighten you about the potential value or lack thereof of your degree? Did you see any company recruiters lined up to interview you?
Finally, as long as the general concensus here in the USA is that [/i]anyone here can step in and begin teaching ESL tomorrow simply because they are a native speaker[i], we with ESL degrees must admit to being duped or extremely naive about the earnings potential which that degree represents. Welcome to the club.  |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Me-ow!  |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| ls650 wrote: |
| Me-ow! |
That said, Talawanda is not wrong, although the tone sounds a little harsh- we've all been there. It's the same in Canada, too, except that there are minimum standards set out by the provinces and country for certification to teach Adult ESL classes (but since most ESL schools are private, it's up to them whether or not to require the certification, or the training for it- but most of the time they do require it). Volunteers don't need these qualifications- because they're volunteers.
And I'm pretty sure at least some areas of the US must have the same reports of an extreme need for ESL teachers that Toronto does- and with the same Catch 22 that nobody will pay them. You sometimes get told "Since you have certification, volunteer at first, and then you'll start getting paid sometime soon down the road." Except that you never do get paid and if you make the mistake of broaching the subject you get derided for being a merciless money-hungry monster (even though you are in very serious danger of ending up on the street because you have no time to work any more than part-time at your $7 an hour retail job that you do on weekends and sometimes during the week when you aren't teaching ESL so you are in fact getting paid for about 20 hours of your 60 to 80 -including prep time- hour work week and paid 7$ for each of those 20) and then your services are no longer required when another ESL teacher shows up and is offered the same volunteer first story.
And that's not even mentioning the contract positions with private language schools that are okay at best, but then the school doesn't actually pay for the work you've already done, saying "We really wish we could, but there just isn't the money".
The people who suffer the least from these kinds of conditions are people who have spouces who earn a "family wage" (read "do not have to rely on their own income to put a roof over their head and food on their table"), and so many, many people are forced out of ESL teaching and then there are more newspaper reports of "With Xnumber of newcomers a year, X% of the entire country's, of which X% does not speak English well enough to live independantly, we really need ESL teachers badly!", when what they really mean is "We really need volunteer ESL teachers who have already paid for a year or more of university training after having completed a degree". |
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Belmont
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 125
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Volunteers |
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| talawanda wrote: |
Did any of your college professors enlighten you about the potential value or lack thereof of your degree? Did you see any company recruiters lined up to interview you?
....... we with ESL degrees must admit to being duped or extremely naive about the earnings potential which that degree represents. Welcome to the club. |
I cringe every time I hear of someone "going for their MA TESOL" and wonder if these people are aware of what they're gettting themselves into. The return on their huge investment of $ and time is just not going to be there. After a few years teaching overseas I've newly returned to teaching ESL (Adults) for LA Unified (Thank Buddha I kept my teaching credential current so I escaped the dreadfully onerous requirements for attaining and keeping a Calif. teaching credential).
The word "volunteer" caught my eye in this thread because I find myself working 20 hours weekly (testing and attendance, prep time, doing photocopying that I pay for) but being paid for 10. That's 2.5 hours nightly with an unpaid 15 minute break in the middle plus an upaid required 10 mins early arrival time. It sucks eggs, but I'm stuck. I need the $ and there isn't much else one can do with a teaching credential. I don't have benefits either. No health insurance. Nothing. If I'm a good boy and jump through all the hoops I might be able to add another 8 hours in the next year or three, making the total 18 hours weekly which gives you bennies. BUT that means working 40+ hours a week with a split shift at two locations.
The only reason you'd want to get an MA, at least for secondary/Adult Ed. teaching, is to get yourself out of the classroom so you can make a decent living. A BA plus the credential is all you need to be a classroom teacher, which is still a 5, maybe 6 year haul.
I discovered, although too late, that the answer to making a decent living in adult ed. (or elementary and secondary ed.) is to have an administrative credential. Good gawd those people have it made. They make incredibly huge salaries (at least in LA) and don't have to VOLUNTEER their time like us poor saps in the classroom. They perform low-level secretarial duties and spend amazingly large amounts of time in useless meetings.
The fact that LA Unified (Adult Ed.) has just knocked $7 an hour off the starting hourly rate for teachers would have NOTHING to do with my present attitude.  Our new contract also took away the previously paid 2 week Xmas holiday. Oh well. At least I have a job, of sorts. And the students are great. |
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