Job Discussion Forums

[writpetition]

Gawd, what the hell's happened to the esl job scenario in China? I've sent out hundreds of mails of late but got almost no responses. Last year I was invited (I mean invited, without having applied) by a state-owned university. Apparently, they'd heard of me somewhere probably becuase I write and my work appears fairly regularly in a monthly magazine. Around the end of the school-year and the contract the dean of the English Deptt and the Wai-ban asked me if I wanted to extend my contract. I hesitated and did not bite, reasons being my wanderlust, desire to earn a higher salary than the 5000 (RMB, of course) I was earning, apart from some minor irritants at the school (nothing major). And now, this? is it hubris? or karma? or what the hell?
Or is it because I'm not white-skinned, blue-eyed and blonde-haired and not from one of those vaunted parts of the world though my English abilities are good. English is almost my mother tongue (ours being a multilingual family that uses English almost all the time) and I write in English almost exclusively.
Is Englsh-teaching more about origins and looks and less about abilities? Is native or non-native suddenly such a huge issue?
Is there hope, yet? I mean I love teaching and writing in China and my students, too have been very fond of me wherever I have taught in the past three years, yet...
Any insights? and more importantly, any ideas who might want a 'pariah'?
Will appreciate any inputs.
Thanks!

[nolefan]

slow season right now. Schools are busy with finals and christmas celebrations. I don't expect them to start dealing with getting new teachers in before january 3rd.

If you're still stuck with no offers, PM me and I might be able to help depending on what you're looking for.

[Roger]

China is ajn immaure market, with uninformed employers and equally uninformed learners. They are fickle, and you have to play by their whims.

Some of us have been pricing ourselves out of the market here - so many came here with unrealistic salary expectations.

The FTs' image also has taken a battering in the local media. No wonder - even in this forum you could occasionally read that all that was needed was "a pulse"...

There never have been so many positions available as has publicly been claimed. This is a market that's permanently under reconstruction!

[lagerlout2006]

It is a strange market..When I looked for jobs in 2003 it seemed I was offered everything I applied for. But that is misleading--or the situation has changed a lot...I have been looking for next term -although rather casually-and am getting lukewarm or no replies. On the other hand perhaps someone should post this question a month from now.

I wonder--are schools waiting to hire or have they ALREADY hired for next term. I'm pretty sure here the FAO hires early so she can enjoy her own spring festival...As I say though I will know more when I start looking in earnest next month..

[ContemporaryDog]

This is one thing that is worrying me somewhat for next year. My visa expires in mid July. I don't particularly want to go back to the UK because its such an expensive place. Yet I might find that many jobs don't even start advertising until August! Indeed I originally got my job, back in the UK, in August 2003.

[badtyndale]

To the OP: I think that the issue of skin colour and race has become more prominent recently as the number of 'positions' has increased. It is intimately bound up with issues of ignorance and market perceptions, and not at all reflective of the notion of foreign expertise (which is a spurious idea anyway considering the lack of regulation).

As for the 'last minute booking' system that goes on in the job market - I agree it's bizarre but again the market can sustain this. You only have to look at the inquiries on this forum about paying to volunteer here to realise that 'someone else will do.' The recent thread that asks, 'why are we here?' is another indicator of the 'immaturity' of the market (I think someone said exactly that).

Fully empathise with CD, just a few weeks in the UK drained my pockets (I don't know how teflers survive there - a lot of those jobs there seem really poor).

[Brian Caulfield]

Chinese don't plan. They start a job at the last minute then if they have any problems they work their way around them . Actually Koreans and Taiwanese do the same . When you work in these countries you don't go home untill the boss does . Sometimes you are expected to work through the night if it is something important .
So with the ESL or EFL teacher's market they don't hire till the last moment . Also we are going into the peak season for private schools and English teachers . A killing can be made teaching at the private night schools now.
Has anyone ever gotten a job more than two months in advance . I have never heard of it .

[Old Dog]

If people generally don't get their jobs more than two months in advance, I wonder what experiences people have in having contracts extended. How can they discover exactly what is happening re their current contract and when are they likely to know their fate? On the off-chance that the current contract is not renewed, at what point in any term should they begin casting about for a new position for the new term.

I'm sure our NZ lady here would find some information about this helpful. While receiving her Christmas present the other day, she thought she'd take advantage of the spirit of goodwill and asked the Principal directly if he intended extending her contract for the 2005/2006 year. I'll bet the poor man nearly choked on his Christmas chocolate almonds at such directness. Anyway, the best he could cough out was that they would deal with that matter later in the year.

As an aside and related to my totally eclectic interest in certain research questions - and in relation to the postings on the current condition of the job market - some months (? - seems like months anyway) ago I posted two resumes on the job board to see what responses would come in. You may recall that there was quite a bit of discussion about that time about what the salary of a ft should be in China, whether the gloriously qualified and experienced should receive glorious money, etc., which led into the discussion about degrees and no degrees. I wondered how well dreams were reflected in reality.

One resume painted the picture of Heaven's Gift to Chinese EFL education and it demanded everything that was demanded in the threads I referred to above. Do not contact me it suggested unless you can give me the money and conditions that I have outlined here (in lengthy, very specific detail). And the result? Not one reply, not even from one of the more brazen recruiters.

The second reply wrote everything down. There was almost humility in the application and the salary required was left open to negotiation. But the basics were there with very few conditions. And the result of this Uriah Heap resume? 4 inquiries from the apparently persistent Coco of whatever organization. One offer I recall was from somewhere in Gansu. The others I don't recall at the moment. But none offered a "glorious" salary.

This may mean something about the market - or it may only mean something about my selling proficiency.

[Brian Caulfield]

It seems to me everyone does the same . You don't tell your employer you are looking for an new job , for fear you don't get what you want and when the dream job comes along at the last moment you spill the beans and then your employer must also find someone to replace you at the last moment .
I tried in my last university job to make a smooth transition and told them 6 months before the contract expired that I was leaving . I caught the wrath of the other FT's for being honest .
Old Dog maybe they couldn't read English .
South Korea's problem is that they always take the best looking teacher and then the best looking teacher turns out to be incompetent insipid babling bafoon and they are forced to look again for the best looking English teacher .

[lagerlout2006]

Old Dog--Guess it depends where you posted. An FT I know posted his info last June and had several replies a day. Might have been chinatefl but can't recall...Rather shocking the Uriah Heep resume didn't get more interest.

I'm still not sure about the last minute thing. As I say the FAO here I am sure has already hired the 5 they will need here. (I'll confirm or not later today.) In fact last summer I know by nid-July all hiring for Sept was done. The panic might be when teachers back-out at the last minute as I'm sure this happens a lot. I'm sure some hiring will be done at the start of next term. Of course these may be the 3500 in a town no-one has heard of variety...

[Talkdoc]

I secured my current public university position one month prior to the starting date and that was only because the people hired one month before me had reneged. I would agree with the two month "rule."

As I have stated at length before, I am convinced that an affable personality together with White skin and an absence of a significant speech impediment are all that are required to teach in China (as that function is currently operationalized). As long as non-credentialed and unqualified teachers fill the seats and the students (and their parents) express satisfaction, and they are willing to do so for 3500 RMB for 20+ hours of teaching per week, there is no practical reason for schools to hire degreed and credentialed people (certainly not at much higher salaries) to practice oral English. Consequently, this suppresses the pay scale for those who come here with more than a high school diploma (and perhaps a TEFL certificate, although it's certainly not required).

I imagine the situation changes (becomes more competitive salary-wise) if the university is deliberately seeking a teacher with a master's degree in literature or linguistics to teach related subject matter; but that is certainly not the norm. And I wonder how many public universities actually take the time to scrutinize fake bachelor degrees when they are drawn to the photo and voice of the applicant? Not too many I bet.

One of my current colleagues is a former high school principal, in his late sixties, with a master�s degree and a wealth of experience. But the students don�t like him for a variety of interpersonal reasons. Next year he will be replaced by someone with a bachelor�s degree, at a third of his age and at about 750 RMB less per month � probably just two months before the start date.

Doc

[lagerlout2006]

Talkdoc mentions fake degrees.

Here is the King. No mere BA for this guy--a PhD from Michigan U and an active career in publishing. He's going to need the 60,000US he earned in Korea Unis for the mess he is in now. The marijuana alone could mean years in prison. The lesson here is...when committing fraud do not grow ganja at home...

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200411/200411080031.html

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200411/08/200411082231492309900090409041.html

[writpetition]

Thanks Nolefan and everyone...I get the general idea. However, I still don't know how to beat the 'color' trap other than doing a Michael Jackson... .
But does anyone know of portals of learning that actually believe in imparting an education? I mean, if educators are so prejudiced as to choose teachers based on things that ought to matter less, what real education can they impart to their wards? And that too in the world of English-learning, in a language that's suppposed to bring people together and not drive them apart! A language, after all, is a means of communication. And surely, the reason why English is taught the world over, is to help different people from diverse backgrounds, find the means to exchange ideas, thoughts and so on... to let the 'different' see the common in all.
Is English being taught in China and Taiwan and South Korea and Japan and...merely to hand out degrees and certificates? Can such people ever really communicate? If that be the case, I'm afraid English-learning will have done them no good. They might as well stay cocooned in the only world they are familiar with.
A language is meant for those who wish to communicate...and English is perhaps, the greatest language ever.
Please don't let anyone hijack it!

[ContemporaryDog]

[Talkdoc]