Job Discussion Forums

[Nagoyaguy]

Life under Hussein- Torture Methods in Iraq

Medical experimentation
Beatings
Crucifixion
Hammering nails into the fingers and hands
Amputating the *beep* or *beep* with an electric carving knife
Spraying insecticides into a victim痴 eyes
Branding with a hot iron
Committing rape while the victim痴 spouse is forced to watch
Pouring boiling water into a rectum
Nailing the tongue to a wooden board
Extracting teeth with pliers
Using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their parents

US methods.

Sitting in uncomfortable chairs
Barking dogs
Wearing women's undies.
Wearing a hood.

[Stephen Jones]

Perhaps Nagoyaguy whoever you are we could strip you naked, leave you crouched for forty-eight hours without sleep, beat a few people to death in the next cell, keep blasting loud repetitive rock music to make you lose your sanity, and then set dobermans on you to bite off your *beep*, and see at the end of it how your pathetic apologist self feels after having been so well treated by Uncle Sam.

[Nagoyaguy]

Sounds like college to me.

Or maybe we could do an Uday Hussein on someone, who routinely had women kidnapped so he could rape them. When he tired of them, he threw them to his attack dogs.

Steve my little friend, you are NOT going to win the battle of morality in terms of Iraq. The coalition will liberate the country and return power to the Iraqi people, something they have not enjoyed for decades.

moron.

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Nagoyaguy wrote:
"...you are NOT going to win the battle of morality in terms of Iraq..."

Certainly the Bush/US war crimes in Iraq are nowhere near the horrible brutalities of the Saddam regime. For me, as a US citizen, that's nothing to be proud of, especially since the US put Saddam in power and supported his oil-iness, regardless of his brutalities.

I am deeply concerned that the US actions "lower the bar" internationally, setting a historical precedent for other nations. The Bush/US actions have resulted in a tremendous increase in anti-Americanism around the planet. Perhaps the US "benign hegemony" will not reign forever. If so, then...it may be a messy situation...

Coincidentally, as I write this I'm watching DeNiro's "Once upon a time in America."

[Nagoyaguy]

CMM wrote;

[moonraven]

nagoyaguy:

Didn't get this one either, did you?

I see--you believe the Bush government is more humane than the government of China, and therefore Ch�vez should consider to sell 60% of Venezuela's petroleum to a country whose president plots his murder????

Take a hike, bozo.

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Nagoyaguy,

RE: fighting the war on terrorism...this week on China's official CCTV, the 30-minute Dialogue show was an interview/discussion with the Foreign Minister of Pakistan. I was quite surprised and pleased to hear him discuss Terrorism in a much more subtle vein than US/Bush-ists (and yourself, yes?), who approach the "War" in the spirit of:
*"modern" agriculture, which uses Chemical Pesticides to kill Enemy-Pests, with a minimal concern for the eco-cycle, and with the strong support of the powerful Chemical Industry
*"modern" allopathic medicine, which uses powerful (Chemical etc.)medicines/"therapies" (often w/side effects), in an attempt to eradicate Enemy-Germs, and with the strong support of the powerful Pharmaceutical Industry
*"benign hegemony," with little concern for "winning the hearts and minds of the people," focused upon "killing the terrorists" (w/unfortunate "collateral damage"),using taxpayer-funded expensive hi-tech weapons, and with the strong support of the powerful Military-Industrial Complex.

Back to the Pakistani F.M....he emphasized the need to understand the ROOTS of TERRORISM...
===============================================
One problem w/"fair/democratic" elections in Iraq/Middle East, is that many of the citizens blame the US for propping up their dictatorial governments. Surveys suggest that the result of truly democratic elections in Middle East will NOT be "US friendly" governments, but fundamentalist Muslim theocracies...especially because of the strong Middle East backlash against US actions in Iraq.

Question:
If Middle East oil nations have "fair/democratic" elections, and they vote in fundamentalist anti-US governments, should the US Bush govt. accept the results?
Or...should the US pursue a policy of "benign hegemony" and seek to install a "US-friendly" govt., using any means necessary, as in the case of "unfavorable" elections in Venezuela, Chile, Brazil, Greece etc.?

[moonraven]

There is no war on terrorism.

There is only the act of fighting terrorism with terrorism.

[AsiaTraveller]

[moonraven]

Doesn't sound much different from the torture adminstered by the US in the prisons in Bagdad and the concentration camp in Guatanamo.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

The Iraqis were better off under Saddam. Unquestionably. If the US invaders were welcome, they wouldn't be targets of car bombs and ambushes on a daily basis.

Logic has little to do with war--but it can be used to sort out truth from propaganda.

[Nagoyaguy]

Moonie; your words.

[ChinaMovieMagic]

TO QUOTE CARDINAL SYNN:

DIE thread DIE!!!!

[ChinaMovieMagic]

To close the metaphorical circle...

Enemy-ism is good-for-business-ism

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The business of prevention

As I've shown you time and again, drugs are big business ?
among the most profitable enterprises on planet Earth. But
within the patent medicine world, there's a redheaded
stepchild that just doesn't usually make much money:
Vaccines.

Why? For one, many vaccines (like this year's much-
ballyhooed flu vaccine) have to go through costly
reformulation every single year to keep pace with the latest
strains of killer bugs. Secondly, vaccines have to be offered
for reasonable prices so that everyone can afford them ? the
bad press a drug company would face for jacking up vaccine
prices would cost them far more than the extra profit they'd
make on the vaccines themselves.

So it's kind of a catch-22 for the drug makers. They have to
develop vaccines to stay competitive, but unless they corner
the market on a blockbuster vaccine for some new illness, it's
hard for them to make much money on this class of
medications. Unless they're selling millions of doses to the
U.S. Department of Defense.

Yes, wartime has become just the shot in the arm the vaccine
business needed. All of a sudden, several million preventive
doses are needed for a half-dozen or more different bio-
toxins. Think the drug makers aren't licking their chops at
that prospect? No wonder the FDA is rushing to declare even
virtually untested vaccines as "safe" ? it means billions of
dollars in profits for the drug business. This, in turn, means
untold millions in tax revenue pouring into the government's
coffers.

True, the tax dollars these drugs cost far outweigh the tax
revenue generated, but since when has the government cared
about being fiscally responsible with your cash? All they care
about is being able to say, "Look, the economy's growing!
Just look at how the drug business is booming! We've
created thousands of jobs in drug plants! Vote for us!"

Plus, the drug companies reap the benefits of the biggest
publicly funded drug studies ever conducted ? using our
troops as the guinea pigs! Look, I'm not claiming that these
are the only reasons our troops get vaccinated, but logic
dictates that they have to be a factor in the equation. That
scares me a little.


Your "vaccine" against bureaucratic bamboozlement,

William Campbell Douglass II, MD<<<

[distiller]

Nag,

Seeing as that the terrorists are not foreign as Bush and co. like to pretend, but Iraqi people, you could say that the Iraqi people are the victims and the terrorists-it's very Vietnam war.

I think the point that raven is trying to make but which gets diluted by her propensity to exaggerate is that the US, unlike China and similar countries, prides itself on being on the frontlines of protecting civil liberties and human rights. That is, a major part of the US national identity is grounded in the idea that everyone has the right to due process or equivalence. Therefore for the US to so unabashedly disregard it own dogma when it�s convenient is the height of hypocrisy.

[AsiaTraveller]

distiller,

Well summarized and written. You have a gift for explaining things so that even the most clueless and immature can understand. Do you teach small children?

Maybe even nagoyaguy will understand. But I'm not getting my hopes up.