Job Discussion Forums

[ShapeSphere]

This has been covered before in bits & bobs on differing threads across many forums. But I want to get to the heart of the matter if possible. This subject might also be relevant now, as it's the time of the year when many of us are seeking or renewing contracts.

Chris Crossley on the Newbie Forum offered some useful advice on asking questions about a contract ("Any questions? Lots of them"). It should be stressed my post is not a veiled attack on him, but an attempt to get more opinions & advice on this delicate subject.

Out of interest, is there anybody who has got a teaching job after asking many questions about their contract?

I am in China, and find some of the questions on Chris's list reasonable, but a Chinese boss appears to despise people who ask too many questions. They are looking for a yes man/woman and a person devoid of initiative.

Have teachers had experiences of which queries are acceptable or not acceptable?

Generally I enquire about class sizes, teaching materials, overtime rate (as some contracts withhold this data!), etc. This is a genuine show of interest in their school as opposed to entering employment 'blind' and unprepared. My career is a profession and not something to be taken lightly. I also tend to ask the less important questions first and build up, as I think this is the preferred method of approach by the Chinese.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[7969]

[limits601]

to go along with 7969, i have had the same problems. The more questions i ask these schools, the less i hear from them. I dunno what im gonna do come contract renewal time. I wanna go but no1 will take me.

[hesterprynne]

Before I came to China, I was able to use this thread to contact several then-current and former teachers at my school. They set my mind at ease about many things. UNFORTUNATELY, some of those selling points have changed since I arrived at the school. But at least my introduction to China was not as stressful as the experiences some teachers had at their new schools. You could post a query here or search for that school here. Sorry if I am stating the obvious.

[lagerlout2006]

In my experience how they reply to questions is an indication of what they will be like later...At this school I lined the job up months in advance-a record for me. Whenever I had a question I would get a wishy-washy reply or no answer at all. It worried me but I wanted to come here for several reasons---and lets just say it was a mistake...

My other jobs -which were fine-the FAO was always quick and honest when I asked anything. And they were honest---not always just trying to put a good spin on things-as they do here...

So a job that cuts off communication when you ask something is not to be trusted anyway...Just one thing---we dont mean asking a daily barrage of questions -that might scare anyone off...Also I think you should ask about the teaching itself. I have seen some teachers ONLY ask endless questions about benefits...

[Roger]

I owe this valuable insight to my many American and Canadian colleagues: ask the school to provide the email of one of their foreign teachers.
I never knew that you could do that until I read this on this forum. This is probably the best advice.

Many schools refuse to oblige, though.

Those who do offer an address or two are on tenterhooks occasionally. I found this out when I enquired at a training centre; the woman gave me two phone numbers and immediately instructed me "not to discuss salary level and work time".

Interestingly, I pointed out to her I would not be amenable to too many timetable modifications; she cheerfully told this to her assistant, but it was a nice show with no meaning: her foreign teachers complained to me that what troubled them the most was the constant and sudden changes made to their weekly timetables.

[7969]

just to be clear, the questions i ask every school (in descending order) are:

1. what textbooks do you use?
2. what english level are the students i'll be responsible for?
3. my timetable?
4. ask about the accommodation.
5. may i contact a current or former teacher?

i usually never ask what the benefits are because they're usually laid out up front anyway (if they're not of course i'll ask). and most benefits are rather standard anyway. if any school is either afraid, or too lazy to answer these few questions that i ask, then i dont want to work for them anyway. and many schools don't answer. however, one school that i did want to work for, answered them, but two weeks after i asked and by which time i had already found my current job, which is a decent job.

[ShapeSphere]

Thanks for all the replies, they are all very useful and confirm that the Chinese really do not like people asking questions. Any questions!

It just shows that we must be more circumspect in our style and method. I will still try to ask the right questions, because frankly I don't want to work for a school that is hiding something, but it's probable that I will have to tread ever so delicately and ultimately accept that they won't answer everything. I must adapt to their culture.

In my opinion, the asking and answering of questions displays professionalism and during my time in England (non-teaching) & Germany (teaching) - I visibly noticed that employers were impressed and pleased that a prospective candidate had the foresight to prepare and ask difficult queries. It demonstrated ambition and a thirst for knowledge.

In England, for a few years, I actually was the interviewer and asked the questions. Who impressed me the most and got the job? The ones who didn't just sit there meek and silent, but displayed some energy & spirit, and made me respond to their incisive line of enquiry.

That's the difference in culture of course. It's funny (as in 'peculiar') that before I came to China, I had visions of being awed and dazzled by Chinese culture and anticipated learning so much that would stand me in good stead for later. Actually, the more information I unravel here, then the less of it I respect and conversely the more I respect English culture and the way we do things.

[KES]

This is not meant in any way as passing judgment, only relating personal observations.

Many Chinese I have dealt with consider signing a contract as the preamble, rather than the conclusion, of negotiations.

This is not done with malice, but simply with the view that a contract is but one item (and not a terribly important one at that) in the whole process of negotiations and that the negotiations (from their view) never really end.

If they can wring a concession from you six hours, days, or months after the contract is signed, so much the better. It isn't (from their view) that they are reneging, but that they are simply "better" negotiators.

I have signed contracts with some Chinese only to very soon discover that they never had the ability, let alone the intent, of fulfilling the contract.

For westerners, this can be particularly frustrating. However, among many Chinese, this is simply viewed business as usual.

For many Chinese, the time to negotiate in serious is when their