Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

(Inspired by a thread in the Newbie forum...)

In the old days, my first stint of teaching was in Indonesia. I won't criticise the country now (though I certainly did at the time - with quite some venom!), but back then I felt a certain sense of alienation from the culture. I was alienating myself from it as much as it alienated itself from me, but I was disappointed in my sheer inability to "assimilate" with the locals.

Even more distressingly, I found that where intercultural friend/relationships were in existence, they were not the sort of thing I wished to be a part of. On leaving, I reasoned that Indonesian and Western cultures were simply too far apart - either that or I was personally unable to bridge the gap between them. Despite making a stern effort to learn the language, travel extensively and meet people - nothing substantial ever really came to fruition. Despite spending a year and a half there, I never really made any "good friends" - to be honest I never really met any locals I wanted to be good friends with.

It sounds like this situation is not rare in the world of TEFL, though.

Lots of teachers who have spent time in Asian countries have complained (or, at least, observed) that it's hard to integrate. Well, "integrate" may be the wrong word, and "penetrate" sounds needlessly sexual. You know what I mean though...

While I suppose that all foreigners temporarily living in other cultures must concede that there will be a certain amount of cultural (and, thus, personal) distance, is it always this bad?

Teachers working in Western Europe certainly don't seem to think so - several of my work colleagues (British) are now engaged/married to people they met in Spain/Italy/Poland.

I have my eyes set, eventually, on South/Central America - simply as the cultures appeal to me; they're not as bizarrely "foreign" as (say) Korean, and it seems that we have more in common. But anyway... Here are the questions...

To what extent does the responsibility lie with the "foreigner" in terms of making an effort to infiltrate their host culture and interact with it on a deeper level than shopping, dealers and whores? Correspondingly, are some cultures simply more "Western-friendly" than others?

What have your own experiences been? Is it a pre-requisite to have to be able to become fluent in the host language and make 250+ friends in your first year to really say that you've experienced the place, and had a worthwhile time?

[Guy Courchesne]

Awesome post...everyone else, let's learn from this one, shall we?

I imagine it depends more on the visitor than anything else. It didn't take me too long to adapt to Mexico, but I don't think I could nail that down to any one factor. I know that I came with an open mind, a passion to learn the language, and ready to adapt. The first months presented many difficulties - glad it did or I wouldn't have learned a thing.

I think, in a perfect world, that both the foreigner and locals should come together to find some common ground. It would be nice if we could all learn from each other.

However, as a visitor, in the real world, I think that the responsibility is 100% on the foreigner to adapt and learn to the host culture. that assumes, of course, the desire to do so. I can't really see the point in not doing so, because after all, aren't we teaching (or simply living) abroad in order to learn, be happy, and become a little more worldly ourselves?

My Mexican friends seem to have a standard, one-line response to the typical 'gringo' complaints about Mexico. Whenever they hear a complaint, it's a roll of the eyes, and a simple bit of advice. "Then why not go home?"

[ls650]

[kitten]

[marblez]

kitten: Where did you find that sort of position, knowing that you are in high school still? I am unable to find any credible work because my BEd is not yet complete and would like any info. Thanks and good luck to your future career. I was in your position 3 years ago (I'm 20 now) and am getting so close!

[kitten]

Merblez
I am a senior in high school and I am a Christian. I have gone to different countries on mission trips. I have gone to Russia, Jamaica, and Thailand. that is how I got into the school. They did not care that we were Christians they just wanted teachers to teach their students English who actually knew English so they settled with us. It was the best 2 months of my life... very rewarding. If you want I will tell you all about it.
-Dani-

[Celeste]

I think that how well you adapt to a new culture depends on a variety of factors. One of these factors is absolutely the culture itself, but I was surprised to find that it wasn't the biggest or only factor. When I was in Korea, it was SO HARD!!!! A lot of that had to do with the fact that the culture was alien (in some cases hostile) to me, but a lot of it also had to do with the fact that it was also my first time abroad and the fact that I was 22 and had my first 'real' job.

Now I am in Japan. I am 30 and this is my career now. The culture is less alien to me. (I think Japan is probably an easier place for newbies than Korea but my view is tainted by the fact that I am no longer a newbie) The job is less alien to me. I find it fairly easy to make friends. (I am in contact with a lot of teachers who are around my age, but when I was 22 I met very few Korean teachers who were my age) Another thing that I find interesting is that when I talk to newbies here (especially young ones) they have the same complaints that I had when I was in Korea and they seem to have avery hard time here.

Something to consider.

[Roger]

It is perhaps easier to become part of a western society that has for a long time been absorbing immigrants (and learnt from some of its errors in the past...) than to integrate into an Asian one where foreignness is defined in too many ways, including what you eat, how you empty your bowels, what skin colour you have, what status your uncle has...
Having said this, I find it easy enough to live in China; amazingly, there are places that are wholly welcoming of others, while other places seem to be teeming with xenophobes. Reading Chinese media you get the impression they all hate foreigners. Not true in my opinion!

[mcNug]

I really respect Leeroy's honesty and that he really did open up a bit of hit heart for this topic.

I can only speak for myself as each and everyone of us is special and different in our own ways. Personally speaking, I've never really encountered "culture shock" before. Reverse culture shock, I most certainly have experienced though. Does it come from the fact that I hated where I was born and that I can accept new places easier?

Some people, who, for noble reasons, are very conscientious of the fact that they are in a new country and try to be as cautious or as culturally sensitive as possible. Most of them burn out from that as they realise they can't keep "wearing that mask" for such a long time.

Again, this is all theoretical, I've learnt not to be so judgemental of why these things happen, as those who have been less gifted at living in foreign countries are often wonderfully gifted in something else, so it's not that they are lesser people for having these feelings. Try putting me on a dance floor, they'll think I have epilepsy.

For me, I guess I've always seen the similarities in people rather than the differences. To me, many of the differences are asthetic and beautiful. (For example, the difference between a Japanese temple & A Polish Church). But what we are is rather universal I feel. We both like to eat, we want to be loved, men like to say the same dirty jokes, we date, we marry, we have funerals.

And I can't say I haven't been frustrated by some things, when I lived in China I hated having to act like Keanu Reaves in the matrix to avoid the spit that was being projected in all directions, or the constant smoking all around me.

Or the crowds in Hong Kong. Of course, we are not "losing it" if we hate those things, many of the local people hate it too!

Through all of these things, I've been myself. I've acted pretty much the same way I did anywhere else and I've made many local friends who've liked me for me.

Perhaps if some people become too sensitive and try to act "how they think I should act" or "how they act" then perhaps a sadness comes from the fact that you have to change who you are to be liked. I feel that's not the case. If you act as who you really are then theres always going to be people who like you for who you are.

Kindness, tolerance, patience, good humour, intelligence are all universally cherished traits. Many ESL teachers have this in spades and it's sad to see them leave upset because they weren't happy with what they've "become".

These are only my insights, I'm not saying I'm right and you're all wrong. It's just how I've personally been able to do what I've done.

[Lynn]

Great responses, everyone. It looks like everyone has different experiences. I've always make good friends with the locals. In Japan and Korea I actually felt a much stronger bond with my females friends than I do here in the states. There is just some sort of "womanhood" I feel together with them that I lack in the states. It might have something to do with the Confusius influence that boys and girls were separated from age 7. I also get the feeling that my female friends in the states really miss their husbands or boyfriends or feel whatever we are doing woud be more fun if a guy was around. Whereas in Japan and Korea, I often held hands/linked arms with women and we'd have fun because no men were around. (sounds kind of lesbianesque but that's totally not what I mean)

Perhaps someone else can explain it better.

[kitten]

I understand what Lynn is saying ( in the responce above). I went to Thailand and they do the same thing. In Thailand ( and apparently in Japan and Korea) same sex people can hold hands or link arms and in our culture you would automatically think that they would be gay or a lesbian. However, in these cultures it is a sign of friendship not love.

[mcNug]

I can understand that as well actually. I could go to a public bath or put my arm around another man without being "a poof".

It's sad that we're instantly gay for showing affection to our friends.

Without straying too much from this very good topic,

I swung off a rope once in Australia and hit a rock. I couldn't walk and I asked my friend if he could help hold me while I walk. He wouldn't because "It would be gay".

And yes, I don't speak to that individual anymore.

[The G-stringed Avenger]

I've been in China for 4 months now and I'm finding it hard to make friends with Chinese people here. The only Chinese person I'm close to is my girlfriend. To be honest, I haven't met any Chinese people I'd like to be friends with. Conversation is often stupefyingly uninspiring ("Do you like Chinese food?" etc.) - something which, while dependent on both sides, is a bit of a stumbling block to taking an acquaintanceship to the next level. A lot of other Chinese people I've met only want to use me, or want my money. I hope things will change, but maybe not - after 2 years in Japan, I have a lot of acquaintances but my only true Japanese friend is my ex-girlfriend, to whom I am still very close. Japanese men are very hard to make friends with. Inferiority complex? Underlying but constant recognition of your "foreign-ness, differentness, apartness"?? Who knows.

[dajiang]

Hmm, having lived for longer periods in Russia and China, I speak those languages on a conversational level. At the time that was enough to really integrate with the locals living around me, that is to feel at home as I could in my home country. You've got people to visit, grab a beer with, just friends.

It helps when you've got a girlfriend/boyfriend there of course, but language is the first and most important thing. That and liking the place of course.

As for conversation, it's a matter of asking the right questions: talk about girls with other guys, learn slang words and use them. I've met some people I could even talk politics with in China (takes a while to get there though). On a cultural level: if people go for a smoke, join em. Eat weird stuff with them. Be funny (some humour is international).

I've often tried to blend in as much as possible in a place. Obviously that was a bit hard in China, but in Russia, Australia and European countries it's fun. Russia for instance: wear dull black clothes, walk around with a plastic bag and don't smile as much as you're used to.
It's a bit like pretending, but it's also trying to discover another side of yourself. Hey, a reason to go travelling is to find out more about yourself after all. it's a challenge too, to see how adaptable you really are.

I reckon contact with the locals makes it worthwile.
Do you guys think some places are really more xenophobic than others though? I doubt it actually, but well this is a very subjective topic anyhow.
Still, if you like a place, you stay a bit longer, you meet people you like, and you're in. If you don't like a place, you move on. Right?

Dajiang

[Tamara]

My travels have been extremely limited so far, and I haven't had much of an opportunity to be much more than a guest in a host country. However, when I was in El Salvador, I felt welcomed by all the folks I met personally. The first time I went, I had just finished one year of high school Spanish, and I think the fact that I tried so hard--inspite of grammatical blunders--to communicate in their native language made an impression. Every other time I went back, I simply built on what I learned the time before. On the other hand, I was with an organization that was set up to receive multiple Americans at a time and they were very gracious hosts. Maybe my sense of being accepted or feeling like I became a part of them was just a reaction to the role they played. Who knows? A final thought: The time I was able to spend an entire summer in El Salvador, I lived in a house with 28 women, half of whom were from the USA and the other half native to El Salvador. It was interesting to me that we slept in different rooms, Americans here, Salvadorenas there. However, the best friend I made there wasn't one of the other Americans, it was a wonderful Salvadorena who drilled me daily on my Spanish pronuncian and conversational skills.

The next time I go abroad, hopefully to begin a career in ESOL, I will go with my family. I am very curious and nervous about my husband's reaction to the whole experience. (As is he . . . )