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People's Front of Judea
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Seoul, Korea
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 Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: Public/Private Elementary/Middle/High School Positions |
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I am currently teaching English in Seoul, Korea. I have been teaching English in Asia for over 4 years now (Hogwans/bushibans for elementary students and one stint at a university). I am finished with my work obligations at the end of this January. Though I am currently applying to university/college positions in Korea, I have become more and more interested in teaching English in Taiwan for various reasons.
I have perused through many websites about living and teaching in Taiwan. I feel better informed about coming to Taiwan. Thus far, I would not be qualfied to teach English at a Taiwanese university. There seems to be many bushiban positions available and I feel confident in aquiring one of the better positions thanks to previous posters. Yet, I do like having some vacation. So I am more interetsed in the public/private elementary. middle, and high school positions available in Taiwan. I am a certified teacher who has taught in the American public school system before coming to Asia, so I would hope I am qualified to teach in the Taiwanese public school system.
Though I have searched through the Taiwanese Ministry of Education website, other government websites, newspaper websites (China Post, Taipei Times, China Times), numerous now inactive Taiwan ESL websites, the many forums on Dave's, and the lack there of in TEALIT, I have found very little information about teaching at the types of schools mentioned above. The only success I have had was through a Scott Sommers blog. Kueishan School (www.kueishanschool.tp.edu.tw), Taipei American School, and Morrison Academy were mentioned. Kueishan School offers exactly what I am looking for (teaching elementary students and an above average salary with 2 months vacation on the side). I plan to contact them this weekend. Also, I have a friend who visited Taiwan recently. His local friend mentioned that there are many public schools jobs available. I asked my friend to contact his Taiwanese friend via email about specific details concerning the "numerous" positions available. It's been about 2 weeks and we haven't heard back.
So my question is: Does anyone have specific information concerning experiences and contact details for Taiwanese public/private elementary, middle, and/or high schools? Email addresses or phone numbers at the admin offices of such schools would be ideal.
My next question is: How would you get information on these schools after traveling to Taiwan? I could go to Taiwan in February for the purpose of contacting these schools for future employment. I do not know if this would be the ideal time to secure a job for February or March, but at least I could contact schools and be informed and prepared to get a position when their next hiring process begins. I have read many posts about the process of flying to Taiwan, getting a hotel, and finding a position at one of the better bushibans, and I feel confident to do this. Concerning elementary, middle, or high school positions, the only things I can think to do are 1) visit the Ministry of Education office, or provincial education offices, to at the very least get a list of public schools whom I could contact, and 2) possible hire a local Taiwanese university student to act as a guide to the world of Mandarin, thus finding school addresses in the phone book or Mandarin websites, then contacting them for potential interviews. For those you with experience in this area, what do you think? Any specific non-vague information would be greatly appreciated.
On a side note, does anyone know the location of the Taiwanese "consulate in disquise" in Seoul, Korea? Also, has anyone ever gone through the process of bringing a small Dachshund (vaccinated with papers) pet dog from Korea to Taiwan? Thanks again. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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You can find a list of Government schools in English on the Buxiban.com website.
You need to be very careful when accepting work in elementary and junior high schools, as much of it is illegal. Private schools such as Kueishan can employ you legally to teach with them, and of course there are the international schools.
The MOE was going all out in trying to get foreign teachers into government schools in rural areas, but they met many set backs with this program. One of the prerequisites of the program was that teachers needed to be employed from back home and sent over here, which may be of detriment to your plans.
My advice is to contact the schools through the Buxiban website and see if you can turn up any leads this way. Attempting to contact schools from Chinese lists will be very time consuming, and as I mentioned above, most of the work would be illegal even if you could find it.
Finally, you might want to contact the user of this forum named Xenophobe as it appears that he or she will be taking one of the MOE offered jobs mentioned above. The job is in Kinmen, which certainly fits the profile for rural schools! |
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People's Front of Judea
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:04 am Post subject: Thank you Clark. Xenophobe, where are you? |
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Thanks Clark for the "heads up" for buxiban.com. I have read through their website before. It's rather informative, but I have tried to access their list of government schools before with no success. I just tried it again now to make sure, but nothing comes up after the search. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I have tried various search combinations for the level of student, country, and city. Nothing there.
Buxiban.com mentioned that with a few exceptions, it is largely illegal to currently work for elementary and junior high schools. It sure would be nice to find out about those exceptions.
Thanks for mentioning Xenophobe. I will try to contact him or her to find out about those exceptions that seemingly exist for Taiwanese public school positions. I appreciate the help Clark. Cheers. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:16 am Post subject: |
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I just checked out the search function at Buxiban.com and I see what you mean. Although the search doesn't seem to be turning much up you can still see the list of elementary, junior high and high schools.
Go the to the 'Government Schools' page but don't conduct a search. Just go to the bottom of the page and you will see the alphabetical listings of these types of schools. Just click on each alphabet letter and you get the listings for that letter A-Z. It looks as if the public and private schools are mixed in together, but the listings are definitely for the type of school that you are looking for.
I am pretty sure that the only exceptions are:
1. Private elementary, junior high, and senior high schools.
2. International schools.
3. Public schools in rural areas that have opted to be included in the MOE's drive to recruit foreign teachers. What I mean by opted is that they have agreed to at least partially cover the cost of employing the teacher and providing accomodation.
Good luck with Xenophobe however as it seems that he or she will have the answer you are searching for. Please let us all know once you find out! |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:58 am Post subject: |
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To the best of my knowledge there are only two areas where public schools hire foreign teachers directly. Taipei City and some of the aboriginal communities in the more remote regions. In other major metropolitan areas all employment of foreign teachers at public schools are done through third parties. Obtaining employment through a third party is illegal and you can not get a legitimate ARC. The Ministry of Education (Ministry of Racial Purity) is one the most corrupt institutions on Taiwan and as such, has a preferred way they do business. The Central government has allocated a very large budget for expansion of English in public schools. Unfortunately very little of that money is getting to the classrooms in the form of highly qualified teachers and conducive learning environments. Kickbacks, graft and corruption in public schools on Taiwan is highly prevalent.
Tax withholdings disappear, photo copies of text books are being sold to public school students as part of the curriculum. Foreign teachers are routinely terminated without pay for inquiring about these practices.
Welcome to Taiwan,
A.
Last edited by Aristotle on Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
To the best o my knowledge their are only two areas where public schools hire foreign teachers directly. Taipei City and some of the aboriginal communities in the more remote areas. In other major metropolitan areas all employment of foreign teachers at public schools are done through third parties. Obtaining employment through a third party is illegal and you can not get a legitimate ARC. The Ministry of Education (Ministry of Racial Purity) is one the most corrupt institutions on Taiwan and as such it is the preferred way they do business. The Central government has allocated a very large budget for expansion of English in public schools. Unfortunately very little of that money is getting to the classrooms in the form of highly qualified teachers and conducive learning environments. Kickbacks, graft and corruption in public schools on Taiwan is highly prevalent.
Tax withholdings disappear, photo copies of text books are being sold to public school students as part of the curriculum. Foreign teachers are routinely terminated without pay for inquiring about these practices.
Welcome to Taiwan,
A. |
All the usual crap, and as usual based upon very little if any facts.
None of the MOE's concerns have to do with 'aboriginal communities' per se. The interest of the MOE is in helping kids in rural areas get a leg up.
Currently the MOE has legislated that English language instruction in elementary schools should begin in Grade 3. However many schools in Taipei and the other large cities actually start teaching English in Grade 1. Add to this the fact that the parents of city kids can generally afford for their children to study at English buxibans, and you see why their abilities are so high.
Kids in remote or rural areas often don't start any formal studies of English until Grade 3, which is in line with the MOE's legislation.
In an to help children in rural areas improve their abilities in English with the aim of bringing them inline with kids in large cities, the MOE came up with the idea of employing foreign teachers in those schools that needed the extra assitance. The MOE has met a lot of resistance to the plan, and as such it has been repeatedly watered down from over 1,000 teachers, to a couple of hundred.
Positions are only available in rural schools, and a few city schools that can demonstrate a clear need for foreign teachers. This work is legal even if offered through a third party, but only if the position offered is an MOE sponsored one. To be entitled to be employed in the program you need to be a qualified teacher back home, and be a resident of England or Canada. These positions do not hire locally so don't confuse them for non-legal work in other schools.
Much to the chagrin of some legislators who have been against English education in Taiwan, funding for the program comes from an Emergency Relief Fund. While some consider this a misuse of government money,others consider it a good start. No where is it mentioned that bribes are needed. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: |
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I see your point. You obviously have acces to information that is not availble to the general public, in the way of inter departmental reports and the like. Unfortunalty the information that certain goverment officals are touting as the way their programs are being implemted are fairy tales. The reports made by teachers (many of them from public schools) tell a different story.
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In an to help children in rural areas improve their abilities in English with the aim of bringing them inline with kids in large cities, the MOE came up with the idea of employing foreign teachers in those schools that needed the extra assitance. The MOE has met a lot of resistance to the plan, and as such it has been repeatedly watered down from over 1,000 teachers, to a couple of hundred.
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The MOE did not come up with the idea. Third party groups and individuals heavily invested in the ESL market on Taiwan initiated these programs ( see the HESS, Kojen and Joy school threads). The contracts associated with these "education reform programs" are worth millions.
The only children who are getting "a leg up" from these programs are the children of the Ministry Of Racial Purity (MOE) officials who are accumulating large sums from kick backs and bribes in off shore bank accounts. What I would like to know is how many government officials' children go to the public schools they are stealing from?
The government of the Republic of China has shown again and again that their primary interest in public education is how much money they can graft from the system not how well they can educate the students on Taiwan.
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| This work is legal even if offered through a third party |
Selling the Brooklyn Bridge now are we?
Good luck.
A. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| You obviously have acces to information that is not availble to the general public, in the way of inter departmental reports and the like. |
Well I guess that I should reveal my secret source of information that Aristotle suggests is not available not the general public. Here is the website that I get a lot of good quality information from.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Unfortunalty the information that certain goverment officals are touting as the way their programs are being implemted are fairy tales. The reports made by teachers (many of them from public schools) tell a different story. |
What reports? Where are these reports available?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| The MOE did not come up with the idea. Third party groups and individuals heavily invested in the ESL market on Taiwan initiated these programs ( see the HESS, Kojen and Joy school threads). The contracts associated with these "education reform programs" are worth millions. |
Aristotle, you seem very confused, or are you just confusing!
It is my understanding that we are talking about foreign teachers being employed by the MOE to teach within government schools. Of course the MOE came up with this, as it is impacts upon no one but the MOE.
The private buxibans have been milking the current market for many years. The fact that the MOE is pushing to introduce English at younger and younger ages, down from grade five and up, down to grade three and up, and lower in the near future, has nothing to do with buxibans. These students will attend buxibans regardless of what is going on in the government school system. As we all know, grade one kids in English buxibans are already proficient in the material that grade five and six students study at government schools.
The suggestion that these private buxibans have been pushing for foreigners in government schools is ridiculous. The biggest selling point for most of these English buxibans is the fact that they have native English speaking teachers. If every government school had their own cast of native English speaking teachers, then why would parents need to fork out the bucks for their kids to attend buxibans? It certainly seems that the employment of foreigners by government schools may serve to hurt the already overly competitive buxiban industry. Perhaps this is the source of the 'anti foreigners in government schools' lobby.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| The only children who are getting "a leg up" from these programs are the children of the Ministry Of Racial Purity (MOE) officials who are accumulating large sums from kick backs and bribes in off shore bank accounts. What I would like to know is how many government officials' children go to the public schools they are stealing from? |
The government has made it clear that foreign teachers will only be employed in rural schools. If MOE officials are prepared to send their kids to these 'needy' schools in rural areas then I guess that they can milk the system by ensuring that their kids get the benefit of foreign teachers. I can't see MOE officials whose children are no doubt attending schools in city areas, transferring to these types of schools in urban areas to take advantage of the situation.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| The government of the Republic of China has shown again and again that their primary interest in public education is how much money they can graft from the system not how well they can educate the students on Taiwan. |
How so? Source?
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This work is legal even if offered through a third party |
Selling the Brooklyn Bridge now are we? |
Taken out of the context this statement was in, it could certainly be misconstrued, so let me exlpain.
I am saying that the legal work in government schools offered by the MOE, which is being farmed out by private recruitment firms and even trade offices, is totally legal. Work permits would of course be issued by the CLA through the MOE.
Work in most other elementary schools and high schools offered by recruiters without the backing of the MOE, remains illegal. |
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EphemeralReal
Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sirs,'
Will it be illegal to work than at a private school becau se I've work at a school called a crammer school and than my boss says I work too at a high school. It's private. My friend said it's okay I work there so it's private. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| EphemeralReal wrote: |
Dear Sirs,'
Will it be illegal to work than at a private school becau se I've work at a school called a crammer school and than my boss says I work too at a high school. It's private. My friend said it's okay I work there so it's private. |
Do you have a work permit and an ARC? If you are working on a tourist visa, and do not have an ARC, any job you take is illegal. Do you ever have to leave the country? Do you pay for Chinese classes to stay in this country? If you answered "yes," any work you do here is illegal. Assuming you have an ARC: If you work for a cram school and also a high school, the high school is most likely illegal work. The name on your ARC is probably the cram school company's. Work at local schools is usually subcontracted through buxibans. It is technically illegal, but done often. I've never heard of an ARC holding teacher getting deported for working in a public school. |
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