|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Josh Lyman
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 98
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Australia has started no war. Rather they have come to the aid of countries at war. Neither have we had a war on our own soil. America
has both started wars and had war on their own soil. |
The US saved Europe and Australia from Nazism and Fascism in WW2. If they hadn't, we would have had a war on our soil; I think the Japanese bombing of Darwin qualifies anyway. The irony is that during WW2 people (most probably like you) in the US were pushing an isolationist world view. The US government made the right decision, both for us and the US, to intervene.
This new policy turned to one of active engagement (military when necessary) following WW2, and this saved us from a Communist world order. Their actions have allowed our own country to remain free and prosperous, and in my opinion we should extend the same protection to other citizens in the world community, eg East Timor.
| Quote: |
If I had two friends, one who had $1,000,000, the other $5,000. If the first gave me a gift worth $5000 and the second a gift worth $2500 I would value the second gift so much more |
1. If the price of your next meal was $3000, you would be thanking the first.
2. You would have $7500 in total.
3. It is not a popularity contest. It's getting medical treatment to children, and food to starving people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Josh wrote: "3. It is not a popularity contest. It's getting medical treatment to children, and food to starving people."
In that case, why all the niggling and meanspiritedness in this thread? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Josh Lyman
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Because some people don't get it.
Anyway don't start ... my spirit guide Bebe told me I had to be nice to you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Don't do me any favors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Josh Lyman
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 *Gives Moonraven a big hug* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Josh Lyman wrote:
| Quote: |
| The US saved Europe and Australia from Nazism and Fascism in WW2. If they hadn't, we would have had a war on our soil; I think the Japanese bombing of Darwin qualifies anyway. The irony is that during WW2 people (most probably like you) in the US were pushing an isolationist world view. The US government made the right decision, both for us and the US, to intervene |
This is slightly misleading. The US helped save Europe from the Nazis. A very very big help indeed but it was by no means a single handed effort. The US entered WWII after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, so they did have war on their soil. The year before, the UK stood alone against Nazi Germany and was able to fend off the Luftwaffe, forcing Germany to abandon it's (admittedly poor) invasion plan. If it hadn't, that would have been that. So, as grateful as we are for the help of the US during that period, if the UK hadn't won the Battle of Britain we'd have been screwed and we'd not be thanking the US for liberating Europe, but condeming it for letting it sink into a dark age. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The US had a very bloody civil war on its soil. Not to mention The War of 1812, when Britain tried to retake its former colonies.
Pearl Harbor, however, was not legally US soil in 1941. Hawaii was not a state then.
The US did NOT save Europe from fascism. There were 3 world leaders at the Yalta conference: Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| moonraven wrote: |
| Pearl Harbor, however, was not legally US soil in 1941. Hawaii was not a state then. |
I stand corrected. I didn't know that, but as a Brit, I hope I am excused! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Location: TDY As Assigned
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: Really? |
|
|
| moonraven wrote: |
The US had a very bloody civil war on its soil. Not to mention The War of 1812, when Britain tried to retake its former colonies.
Pearl Harbor, however, was not legally US soil in 1941. Hawaii was not a state then.
The US did NOT save Europe from fascism. There were 3 world leaders at the Yalta conference: Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin. |
Really?
Following your line of reasoning then, Puerto Rico and Guam are not U.S. territories? The U.S. does not handle their foreign relations or provide their military defense?
As for the three leaders at the conference you mentioned, how many of them had troops fighting in the U.S. against the Nazis?
While it is true that the three nations represented at the Yalta Conference all contributed to the defeat of Nazi Germany, only one sent hundreds of thousands of its troops across a very large ocean to fight and die on another continent. Also, only one nation gave to the two others the millions of dollars necessary to sustain the war effort. Only one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Really? |
|
|
| Ajarn Miguk wrote: |
While it is true that the three nations represented at the Yalta Conference all contributed to the defeat of Nazi Germany, only one sent hundreds of thousands of its troops across a very large ocean to fight and die on another continent. Also, only one nation gave to the two others the millions of dollars necessary to sustain the war effort. Only one. |
Nobody said otherwise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Location: TDY As Assigned
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Really? |
|
|
| Cardinal Synn wrote: |
| Ajarn Miguk wrote: |
While it is true that the three nations represented at the Yalta Conference all contributed to the defeat of Nazi Germany, only one sent hundreds of thousands of its troops across a very large ocean to fight and die on another continent. Also, only one nation gave to the two others the millions of dollars necessary to sustain the war effort. Only one. |
Nobody said otherwise. |
Actually, I was replying to the quote you will find in my message above. It needed a reply. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Josh Lyman
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
In the context of the statements Donfan made in regards to the "warmongering" of the US, and his perception that Australia has come to the aid of countries at war (the implication either being that the US hasn't, or that Australia is somehow superior because it hasn't been involved in the instigation of a war - which is false), my statement was aimed to remind him that Australia would have been obliterated by the Japanese if it weren't for the intervention of the US military.
The �warmongering� US and their large military, has saved his country in the past, and is now saving lives in tsunami-affected areas. I really don't see how the locals could care less if American military clean up a hospital, and distribute aid and treatment, which incidentally, is exactly what the Australian military is doing in Indonesia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
moonraven
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 3094
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Puerto Rico is a US colony captured after the blowing up of the US ship Maine in the harbor of Havana BY THE US (blueprint fr 9/11) allowed the US to declare war on Spain and grab the colones they had been coveting. Fortunately, it has a pretty active independence movement.
Guam was taken during the same war.
Colonies are not the "soil" of the country that colonzes them, in my opinion. That would be like saying that the assassination of colonial independence leaders took place on the soil of the colonizing country.
In regard to WWII, the USSR lost far more troops than the UK and the US combined. I suppose that doesn't matter since they didn't cross an ocean.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spidey
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 382
Location: Web-slinging over Japan...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Excuse me, but I thought this thread was about the US's attitude toward tsunami relief.
I'm sorry...I must be lost. 
S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
Location: TDY As Assigned
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:35 am Post subject: Opinion |
|
|
| moonraven wrote: |
Puerto Rico is a US colony captured after the blowing up of the US ship Maine in the harbor of Havana BY THE US (blueprint fr 9/11) allowed the US to declare war on Spain and grab the colones they had been coveting. Fortunately, it has a pretty active independence movement.
Guam was taken during the same war.
Colonies are not the "soil" of the country that colonzes them, in my opinion. That would be like saying that the assassination of colonial independence leaders took place on the soil of the colonizing country.
In regard to WWII, the USSR lost far more troops than the UK and the US combined. I suppose that doesn't matter since they didn't cross an ocean.... |
Your opinion aside, both Puerto Rico and Guam are very much part of the U.S. When and if either should become independent of the U.S., then they won't be part of the U.S.
Regarding who lost the most troops, that was not your point before or the point I was addressing.
You have a tendency to let emotion get in the way of logic and common sense when it comes to making arguments.
Believe it or not, there have been times in the course of history that the U.S. has actually done the right thing and come to the assistance of those in need.
Such was the case in World War II and such is the case with the tsunami tragedy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
