Job Discussion Forums

[merlin]

[Nagoyaguy]

Merlin, you said;

[Cardinal Synn]

[merlin]

Nagoyaguy -
I see you're taking this discussion far too personally.

But if you insist -
My reaction to the story and photo you gave the liink to is that it's just the typical run of the mill sappy PR trash shoveled out by our govenrment and like most stories in the mainstream media it was printed to give simple-minded and naieve americans like yourself a warm fuzzy feeling and keep your mind off of other issues. The washington Times is obviously pro-bush and prints articles accordingly. Any University Freshman should be able to see that. Except in America, of course.

Now, how about this:
http://www.turkishpress.com/world/news.asp?id=050112085022.t09gmzz5.xml
It seems the Indonesian govenrnment has been reading my posts, eh?

You see, it's not just me who doesn't trust the US government. The worst-affected country in the region's government doesn't, either.

Now, how about those US military helicopters, eh?

[homersimpson]

[moonraven]

Ajarn: I do not let emotion--patriotism--or anything else--get in the way of reason.

The US, as stated by AF Dulles, Secretary of State during the Einsenhower administration, does not have friends--only interests.

In the case of the tsunami, the USS Abraham Lincoln was deployed to Indonesia to safeguard the interests of Exxon/Mobil, as the Aceh area just happens to be that of thelargest gas/petroleum reserves in the region and both companies are highly active there.

Indonesia is not comfortable with the US military presence, as indicated in this story this morning on Yahoo News:

U.S. Faces Restrictions in Tsunami Effort

42 minutes ago Top Stories - AP


By YEOH EN-LAI, Associated Press Writer

BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - The U.S. military faced tighter restrictions Wednesday as the Indonesian government sought to reassert control over foreign troops, relief workers and journalists in the tsunami-devastated region, which also has been the site of a rebel insurgency.

In Paris, the world's wealthiest nations said they support a moratorium on debt repayments by countries stricken by the Dec. 26 disaster that has killed more than 150,000 people.

The moves by the Indonesian government, aimed primarily at U.S. troops, underscore the nationalistic country's sensitivities at having foreign military forces operating there � even in a humanitarian effort. They also come amid warnings from the Indonesian military that areas of tsunami-battered Aceh province may not be safe for aid workers.

Hundreds of from troops from Australia, Singapore, Germany and other nations are also helping the relief mission. The Indonesian military is providing security for all of them.

The aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, which is leading the U.S. military's relief effort, steamed out of Indonesian waters Wednesday because the U.S. Navy (news - web sites) only has permission from the Indonesians to fly aircraft into its airspace that are directly supporting the humanitarian operation, said Lt. Cmdr. John M. Daniels, spokesman for the Lincoln carrier strike group. Helicopters will still deliver aid to Sumatra's devastated coast, however.

[moonraven]

And apparently I am not the onlyperson who doesn't believe the money pledged for aid will actually materialize. Here's a similar concern from a paper from one of the affected countries:

Published on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 by The Statesman (Calcutta, India)
Are Promises All They Have?
Much cynicism exists on the West�s attitude to countries in times of need, and not without reason.


by Stanley Theodore

A staggering $5 billion has been pledged by the international community as the biggest humanitarian crisis � since World War II � began unfolding on 26 December. Together with the relief work, including naval ships and helicopters, being carried out in the tsunami-hit South and South-east Asia, this qualifies as the largest humanitarian operation ever.

The pledges are from 50 countries, Asian Development Bank and World Bank. Further, there are private donations � totaling $1.6 billion � from hundreds of organizations and millions of individuals, which would be routed primarily through aid and relief associations.

Now for the most important question: how many of these countries would actually stand by the amounts promised? One needs to doff one�s hat to the world�s collective generosity � children are selling chocolate and lemonade towards relief money and parents� donations apart, some are even collecting loose change to send to South Asia. Even North Korea, which receives aid to feed its own population, has pledged $1,50,000. Yet, the disturbing thought remains: how many of these promises will be honored?

Donations, especially from countries and major institutions, mirrored the tsunami effect after United Nations humanitarian chief Jan Egeland left the Western world, particularly the USA, embarrassed and fuming when he said: �We were more generous when we were less rich� and it is beyond me why we are so stingy, really....� But then George Bush did not pause his Christmas holiday to talk about the disaster and on 27 December his administration promised $15 million � less than half the sum allotted for his inauguration parties to be held this month by the Republicans. After Egeland�s rap, the amount went up to $35 million and subsequently to $350 million, with secretary of state Colin Powell repeatedly asserting that this is not final. Consequently, on 5 January, the eve of the Jakarta summit, Australia and Germany increased their respective pledges to $1.5 billion between them, to make the total the highest aid assurance in history. It is important to note that at one point, private donations in these two countries outstripped the original pledges made by the governments.

The timing of the aid announcement and the manner in which donor nations increased the aid amount was not lost on the 26 leaders at the two-day summit in Jakarta where the focus was on how effectively and swiftly relief could be reached to the affected millions. Egeland who later clarified that he meant no offence said the Australian and German pledges were so phenomenal that UN staff workers asked these nations to repeat the number of zeroes, just to make sure they were getting it right! European commissioner for development and humanitarian aid Louis Michel candidly admitted: �too many pledges may not be honored� The US agency responsible for distributing the country�s funds for humanitarian and economic assistance, USAID, said the USA isn�t the only country that doesn�t pay.

What is troubling relief organizations is the example of the 2003 Bam earthquake in Iran, exactly on the same day � 26 December � and eerily around the same time � early morning. Over 31,000 were killed when 80 per cent of the 2,000-year old city collapsed. Forty-four donor nations pledged $1.1 billion towards relief and long term rehabilitation. However, according to Iran, only $17.5 million was actually delivered. Several victims continue to live in tents even a year later as pledges did not transform into cash and the cash strapped UN is unable to carry out its $33-million reconstruction plan.

Humanitarian organizations are insisting on a long-term commitment to the tsunami-affected, without conditions and in the form of grants, not loans. Christian Aid estimates that recovery alone would take three years. Its senior policy officer Andrew Pendleton said: �People in the region will experience a �social tsunami� if we do not act now. Millions of people in the countries affected will remain trapped in poverty for years to come unless the aid is faster and better. The social tsunami following disasters results in social dislocation and accelerating rates of poverty create surges in crime, disease and domestic violence�. The Oxfam director Barbara Stocking said: �We must ensure we don�t repeat mistakes of previous humanitarian crises in Afghanistan, Liberia, and elsewhere where donors have either failed to deliver the aid quickly enough or at all, or delivered aid at the expense of other disasters.�

Such calls for caution stem from previous records of the world�s performance, or the lack of it, following disasters. In Mozambique, during the calamitous 2002 flood, the international community delivered only half the promised sum, according to reports. In October 1998, Hurricane Mitch � the fourth strongest hurricane ever � ravaged Central America killing 11,000. Countries pledged $9 billion and five years later delivered only $3 billion. Fourteen months later, a cyclone caused three weeks of flooding in Mozambique and Southern Africa, the worst in 50 years. $400 million was promised, but only half was delivered.

The Ethiopian famine (1984) is among the deadliest wherein one million people starved to death. The country never fully recovered, its war with a neighbor making matters worse. In 1999, Ethiopia again needed food. Relief Web posted this in April 2000: �In January 2000, the Ethiopian government launched an urgent appeal for 9,00,000 tonnes of relief aid, the largest appeal since 1992. The donor community quickly responded with the promise of 4,50,000 tonnes, including 1,00,000 tonnes from the Ethiopian government. To date just 10,000 tonnes of food aid has been delivered. Meanwhile national food reserves have been allowed to run down because of donor failure to deliver food last year.� Four years later, 7 million Ethiopians are still in need for food.

The Catholic Agency for Overseas Development authored a document on policy change for Africa in 2005, which said: �Six years ago, the G7 summit in Cologne promised US$100 billion worth of debt relief for Highly Indebted Poor Countries in a scheme intended to leave these countries with sustainable debts. So far, less than a third of the promised sum has been delivered and still, the HIPC Initiative is failing to leave countries with affordable debts.�

This document stated two facts. One, Europe and the USA spend as much on their pets as they give to Africa every year. Two, European Union gives more support to European cows than most Africans earn �and then dumps the beef on African markets where most Africans struggle to earn a living.� With due respect to this agency, this reflects cynicism, not misplaced, over the West�s attitude to countries in times of need. The West has to be very watchful in converting their commitments to reality. Else, such cynicism would turn into bitterness in a region where the West�s credibility has suffered much in recent years.

Stanley Theodore is the Hyderabad-based Special Correspondent of The Statesman.

� 2005 The Statesman

[Josh Lyman]

[moonraven]

I don't write for the Yahoo News site. Complain to them--they do have a feedback mechanism. Or don't read the thread. BTW, what decent articles have you been posting?

Considering that Yahoo News is pro-US, makes at least this poster wonder just how many shenanagins are really going on with the US military presence there....

[Josh Lyman]

[moonraven]

I am not defensive at all. There was a full page article about it in La Jornada today, but I am feeling a little resistant to translating a long article from Spanish right now. If you read the language well, check out www.jornada.unam.mx--Opinion section, Bajo la lupa column.

This may interest you--it's from 2001, but it speaks to the statement that I made at the beginning of the post that you quoted:

TROOP DEPLOYMENT TO GUARD EXXON AND OTHER VITAL ENTERPRISES

Report received from Aceh on 6 November 2001

A report from Aceh indicates the extent of troop deployment in North Aceh, nominally charged with protecting a number of Indonesia�s most prestigious industrial ventures, including Exxon-Mobil Indonesia and its associated refinery, PT ARUN.

According to the report, which gives a detailed breakdown of troop deployment, at least 10,755 (ten thousand seven hundred and fifty-five) troops have been posted in 77 (seventy seven) different location in the district of North Aceh, including 30 (thirty) villages, 3 (three) schools, 2 (two) mosques and one shopping complex. The report states that two hundred and fifty KOSTRAD troops have been posted in Lhok Kuyun village, Sawang Sub-district alone.

In Seunudon Sub-district, a total of 800 (eight hundred) troops have been posted in eight different locations, including 550 (five hundred and fifty) Marines and 150 (one hundred and fifty) men from Infantry Battalion 111.

On 31 October 2001, Dasian Ben Yusuf was arrested by the Marines based at Aluee Bili, Seunudon Sub-district. Two days later, on 2 November 2001, he was found dead by a villager in Paya Cicem river. The fate of two other men arrested by troops guarding the Exxon-Mobil site known as �Bachelor� at Simpang Landing, Lhok Sukon, remains unconfirmed.

Troops have been deployed all along the Exxon-Mobil pipeline road, and regularly carry out operations into the nearby villages. Those using the pipeline road are stopped and searched. Villagers report cases of the systematic use of intimidation and extortion perpetrated by members of the security forces, and the report indicates that the inhabitants of villages located along or nearby the Exxon-Mobil pipeline are in a high state of fear and unrest, due to troop activity.

One example the report cites is that of Simpang Leupe, a village located along the Exxon-Mobil pipeline, where members of the security forces demand money from every vehicle which passes along that road, including the public transport and poor villages on their bicycles.

The troops deployed include KOPASSUS (forty at PT AAF complex and an unspecified number at PT PIM port at Dewantara and Dewantara Koramil base), KOSTRAD (deployed mostly to secure Exxon-Mobil facilities � units 121 and 122), Marines, Airforce, Brimob, TNI regulars, ZIPUR (Engineers) and ARHANUD (artillery air defence corps). The numbers of �organic� and �non-organic� forces are not made clear in the report.

The projects being secured by the troop deployment include:

Exxon-Mobil Indonesia
PT ARUN
PT Aceh Asean Fertiliser (PT AAF)
PT Pupul Iskandar Mudah (PT PIM � fertiliser)
PT Kertas Kraf Aceh (PT KKA � pulp and paper plant)
State Electricity Company (PLN)
Tripara Co Warehouse

tapol.gn.apc.org/r011106acehtroops.htm

[Ajarn Miguk]

moonraven wrote: "Ajarn: I do not let emotion--patriotism--or anything else--get in the way of reason."


It's not as much about patriotism as it is the facts.

Only by your own very peculiar definition was Hawaii not U.S. soil in 1941 or are Puerto Rico and Guam not U.S. soil today. A peculiar definition which defies both international law and reality.

As for World War II, most, if not all reputable historians, agree that the single most important event influencing the outcome of World War II was the entrance of the U.S. on behalf of the Allies. To this extent, the U.S. saved Europe from what would have been a limited or unlimited victory by Hitler and his henchmen.

The problem here is that whenever the U.S. is shown in a positive light, you immediately go into the attack mode and counter with spurious, disengenuous and unrelated comments and citations which have little or nothing to do with the argument or point at hand.

What this demonstrates is your own prejudiced tunnel vision when it comes to the U.S. and your inability to entertain the idea that you might actually be wrong in some instances.

You are not engaging in debate. Yours is solely a campaign advancing your own personal viewpoint. The two are not the same.

[merlin]

[moonraven]

Merlin: Only very briefly in a government agency--but a number of years running agencies that the government contracted to deliver services. I suppose that means that I know how government works--or in most cases, doesn't work.

[merlin]

epilogue:
Merlin leaves the woodshed mentioned in an earlier post with a bag full of fish from the aforementioned barrel, closing the door on a comatose Nagoyaguy and a battered homersimpson, who whimpers something nonsensical about spelling errors. Merlin looks around for cardinal syn "He's buggered off!".
POOF
credits roll down the screen