Job Discussion Forums

[Minhang Oz]

My school asked me to look through some CV's and suggest likely candidates for employment here.
There were the usual "what the hell can I do now, oh I know, I can teach in China!" candidates with no relevant qualifications, experience, or grasp of the English language.
There were two standouts however. One is a BBC- British born Chinese, the other an African-American...both with all the qualities missing in those mentioned above. My waiban looked worried when I told her that these two were by far the best. Now, its not my decision, or hers, but I will be surprised if either is offered a place. Not because there's racism in China. Everyone will assure you that's not the case. It's just that its impossible for a non white to speak English properly!

Have any posters or browsers got first hand experience of this kind of thing?

[MyTurnNow]

Of COURSE there's no racism in China. And the way Chinese get treated in America is so shameful...why do you people do that? Huh? What? A BLACK TEACHER???!?!? I want my money back!!!!!!!!!!!

The race issue is easy when you essentially only have one race to deal with. (I know, I know...but the ethnic groups are very, very old here and mostly not so easily distinguished from Hans compared to, say, whites and blacks; the Central Asians are mostly in Central Asia and also reach a level of us-and-them eventually; and the ethnic Russians etc. are a drop in the bucket) You can't move to China and become accepted as Chinese, really. Your children won't really be Chinese, either. So it is seen as incomprehensible and impossible that non-whites could move to America and become really American. (Ditto for other western countries. Just trying to keep it short. )

Right or wrong, many Chinese students insist on "real" westerners to teach their English classes- even in cases where one of the many very competent Chinese teachers would actually do a much better job. And to them, all "real" westerners have white skins and are prone at any given moment to having light hair and blue eyes. Anyone not fitting this mold is not a "real" westerner and is therefore less qualified and desirable as a teacher of English.

I must point out that a LOT of non-whites come here and do extremely well for themselves. These social conditions are slowly changing. But to many people here those with African blood are simply not to be trusted. Even whites fall under suspicion once they leave the classroom. And WBCs fall into a special zone- they are often accepted as neither Western NOR Chinese.

School owners may or may not agree with this personally, but they know where their bread is buttered. It's a tough fight...

MT

[stevey]

wow..you know i did want to bring this point up myself.

yes, from personal experience i have come across racism - i AM BBC (british born chinese). but i AM in china teaching.

however, having said that, finding a job in china wasnt as easy as i expect it is for the "real foreigners" I applied for shed loads of jobs before coming to this school, and many of them were intereseted and then asked me for a photo of myself - which i happily did. after that, i heard nothing from them, but those that did reply were honest and actually said that they wanted a native real foreigner (it wasnt those exact words but it was roughly the same). i suppose i was pissed off at first, but i was glad they were honest (those that replied that is).

so you say - how did i get this job? well....i was fed up and so i kind of lied and said i was a half chinese and half irish and doctored my photo a bit to be a bit more white. i dont know if this helped or not but i got a job. as soon as i arrived they were just glad to see they had got a foreign teacher to teach - even though i do look chinese. those that did ask abt my parents, i just told them straight out that my parents are chinese and i am born in england.

my treatment here as a BBC....hmmm, well...to tell the truth i DO feel a fake a lot of the time , as in i dont feel like a REAL foreigner. When the foreign teachers are asked out for dinner I sometimes feel.....hmmm..just feel like im letting them down in a way cos im not a white guy. For this reason, i think i did a lot for them at the beginning, that i think other foreign teachers would have told them to go stick it where the sun dont shine.

To be honest, i dont really blame the schools that they choose so called "real foreigners" over BBC's because I would probably do the same in their position - however much it sucks for me, the story goes that the school is a business and as many of foreign teachers know, foreign teachers are just there for face - "come to our ABC school!! we have a white guy!! your english will be so good in a week just by talking to him!!!" you get the picture.

Advantages of being a BBC? well, i suppose i dont get the stares you lot talk abt and I can usually get away without being charged a "foreign tax" when i go out. - i.e. if they see you are foreign, they will just add a few extra RMB cos they think you can afford it. The language is also easier for me cos i speak cantonese and so i can learn mandarin faster.

are there any other bbc's out here?

[Roger]

This is a recurrent topic.
Although I have known a number of blacks working in various schools, I am acutely aware of them being disadvantaged. A good attitude helps enormously overcome social adversity, though.

Anyway, it is not always racism pure and simple. It is to do with bias, manifestly, but it is not necessarily ethnic categorising.
FOr example I knew two Filippinas working in a Guangzhou training centre side by side with a Korean-American, an Aussie woman and several local CHinese. The Korean-American failed to see his one-year contract renewed after it expired, and we all knew why. Parents had continuously complained that he looked like a Chinese.
The two Filippinas could stay, though. This was rather ironic as one of them had Chinese blood (or so she let on all the time, yet she looked the South Asian she was, very dark, which normally is frowned upon by CHinese). Ironic too because they both made 30% more money than their numerous fellowcountrywomen in HK do, working as slaves to Chinese families.
When that school was looking for another exzpat teacher, I suggested hiring an American acquaintance of mine. They turned him down upon seeing him - he was of Chinese stock, but can't speak Mandarin!

On the other hand, there is a mindset that privileges certain Westerners over other Westerners - say US Americans over New Zealanders or SOuth Africans, for example. How can you explain that? It is irrational.

Lastly, some local Chinese fall victim to Chinese prejudices too: Most of us make more money than our Chinese colleagues. When I began working in China, this was not the case, but over the past 5 years the gap between us and them has opened and widened. Example: A friend of mine makes 8000 RMB a month, working 22 weekly hours (actually periods of less than 40 minutes!), while his locally-born wife earns 1500, teaching arts in the same school and working over 30 periods a week!
If you make 4000 at a college or university, your Chinese wortkmates probably make 2500 to 3000 a month!

[chinasyndrome]

Interesting topic, thanks Oz!

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I work at an international school. Being so, I believe that we should encourage racial diversity as long as it doesn't impact on adequate fluency. Among the current teachers we have one black Canadian, 2 Polish, 1 South African teachers with the balance made up of (white) Americans and Canadians and an Australlian.

The issues at hand are really those of skin colour and Asian features. While certainly the coloured teacher stands out in this small city, the students have accepted her fully and show her enormous respect. The character of the person is an important element of this respect, I believe. There were some Asian and Asian-looking teachers here in the past who were generally not so well received, but this could be brought down to issues of teaching methods, personalities, and in one case, pronunciation.

Stevey's comment that he felt like a fake are, I hope, a thing of the past. You are either a teacher or you aren't. If you are, never bow your head because of racial or facial features.

China is changing. Does anyone remember the bad old days of Party members 'monitoring' the classes, when teachers were only allowed to read exactly what was in the book and not even say 'hello' unless it was in the text? I read several first-hand accounts of this some years ago, although I don't have the books here to quote from now. If true, what fundamental change has taken place! Slowly. But surely.

In a newspaper last year (I think) the question was asked if Chinese people are racist. The reply, from a university student was no, because there were no black people in China.

It exists, and is becoming more of an undercurrent than a rude ban, but it will continue to change as China grows up. At least, I hope so.

Interesting comments, all. Thanks again.

[Bertrand]

Now, I'm not trying to defend the common Chinese position; rather, I'm merely trying to understand it. As I see it, the situation there can best be described with an anology:

Imagine you wanted your child to learn, say, Swedish. What characteristics would you expect the teacher to have? Well, I would want the teacher to be fairly tall and very blonde, viz., I want him to look Swedish. Even if a member of the Chinese race who was born in Sweden - and thus was as mush as a native speaker as the next Swede - I would still prefer to have Swede. Not a popular view for sure, but the one currently prevalent in China.

There is more to it than this, though. Most schools will want to use your image for promotions, etc. For this a 'real', i.e., prototypical, Western face is required.

As with everything else in China, the bottom line is money, money, money.

[Mac]

My experience about this kind of thing happened when I first arrived in Maoming my first China teaching experience. The dept head of the English department told me that before I came they had a black man come to their college for an interview and this chinese teacher said there was no chance they were going to hire him. This teacher then said that the students would have walked out of their class if they saw this black foreigner. This blantant statement took me by surprise was an understatement.

[MyTurnNow]

Mac, it _is_ surprising to hear the casual bluntness of these attitudes. It will be unquestioningly assumed that you have the same feelings.

I for one don't and I am not shy about it. I'm in a position here to overrule the Chinese owner regarding hiring decisions, and I can actually hire the best person for the job. Students who smugly inform me that China is free of racism are invited to spend a day in my shoes and then repeat that statement.

[chinasyndrome]

[quote="MyTurnNow"]

[Hamish]

[Minhang Oz]

As I started this thread- and many excellent posts here, I know our former guru hs been following- its getting a bit tired and probably wants to go to bed.
My theory, shared by others, is it isn't race but COLOR that makes the difference. There are lots of Chinese who are all but black. But what are their jobs? Farmers, laborers, unemployed. Any working at your school.?....in the classroom or office, that is. And it isn't just a China thing. Read the marriage ads. in "The Times of India". Light skin color gets the wealthy, well educated partner. Japanese, Chinese, South African [black] girls spend a fortune on skin lightening cosmetics. Skin color is a big factor when it comes to social and financial success in China.
So whiteness is next to godliness, rather than race,

[MyTurnNow]

Total agreement on the internal racism. At least as widespead and at least as vicious, and at least as reprehensible, as that directed at us.

I'll hire Europeans, Africans, East Asians, Middle Easterners, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. etc. etc. if they display a native-level facility of English and have the other qualifications I seek. I've just hired an ABC and am strongly considering a foreign-educated CBC (Chinese-born Chinese) who sounds like he's from St. Louis. So I may have popped a few farts into the toaster around here.

MT

[chinasyndrome]

[quote="Hamish"]

[chinasyndrome]

[quote="MyTurnNow"]

[senor boogie woogie]

In my wife's medium sized city in the sticks, a junior-middle school that
worked for (and yet may again) was searching for a foreigner to do classes. When I worked there, the school did not have the "right" to hire a foreigner, so the senior school that provided the visa basically farmed me out there to cover morning classes.

Now there is a black kid at the senior school, but the headmaster wont let him teach at his school because he is black (and African). The headmaster (a good fellow really) kind of failed to see where he is, an ugly, dusty, dirty cowtown with no other foreigners.

Lucky for him, he hired two girls from Australia.

I believe that in the big cities in a University setting, it does not matter what color you are if you can reasonably accomplish the task at hand. This is one of the few bright spots of socialism here. The private school I worked for in Hangzhou would not look ata black client. That's just the way it is.

SENOR