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MyTurnNow
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 860
Location: Outer Shanghai
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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CS, I think it's closer to the popping sounds you thought your toaster was making. 
I've talked to a very, very few Indians/Pakistanis whose English was really fully standard enough to not cause a riot in the classrooms. Yeah, the floridity thing combined with very, very strong accents. But I do give them the shot. And I've found a few that made the cut.
But the overkill is certainly not limited to that region of the world. I've got an American candidate currently e-mailing me all his college papers, content of his web sites, random compositions, etc. etc. etc. Not sure if I should hire him or beat him to death with a coal shovel. 
MT |
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chinasyndrome
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: In the clutches of the Red Dragon. Erm...China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:54 am Post subject: |
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[quote="MyTurnNow"]
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| CS, I think it's closer to the popping sounds you thought your toaster was making. |
It was the loudest pop I've heard in a while.
| Quote: |
| But the overkill is certainly not limited to that region of the world. I've got an American candidate currently e-mailing me all his college papers, content of his web sites, random compositions, etc. etc. etc. Not sure if I should hire him or beat him to death with a coal shovel. |
Please, go the coal shovel before he gets to me! Hard to know whether to help or hurt them. Always wonder if I'm gonna have to be their babysitter instead of their boss. |
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MyTurnNow
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 860
Location: Outer Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:57 am Post subject: |
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It's the cabbage, man. Watch out for it. 
I hear you on the fanatics. I'm far to busy maintaining my own ego to tolerate grooming someone else's.
MT |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:19 am Post subject: |
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What students want are people who can speak/teach English clearly and are animated and interesting.
Race is irrelevant if you have what it takes to teach effectively.
If people want to be racists, then schools may well recruit British teachers only as Americans can't spell nor speak properly. Australians mumble etc etc etc. Don't think that by having a white face, you are an automatic selection for being a teacher. If you are passionate about what you do, then it will show in your work.
I may not look like an English teacher, but I have done it in 3 different asian countries, all have been exciting and enriching experiences.
I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it  j/k. |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| stevey wrote: |
wow..you know i did want to bring this point up myself.
yes, from personal experience i have come across racism - i AM BBC (british born chinese). but i AM in china teaching.
however, having said that, finding a job in china wasnt as easy as i expect it is for the "real foreigners" I applied for shed loads of jobs before coming to this school, and many of them were intereseted and then asked me for a photo of myself - which i happily did. after that, i heard nothing from them, but those that did reply were honest and actually said that they wanted a native real foreigner (it wasnt those exact words but it was roughly the same). i suppose i was pissed off at first, but i was glad they were honest (those that replied that is).
so you say - how did i get this job? well....i was fed up and so i kind of lied and said i was a half chinese and half irish and doctored my photo a bit to be a bit more white. i dont know if this helped or not but i got a job. as soon as i arrived they were just glad to see they had got a foreign teacher to teach - even though i do look chinese. those that did ask abt my parents, i just told them straight out that my parents are chinese and i am born in england.
my treatment here as a BBC....hmmm, well...to tell the truth i DO feel a fake a lot of the time , as in i dont feel like a REAL foreigner. When the foreign teachers are asked out for dinner I sometimes feel.....hmmm..just feel like im letting them down in a way cos im not a white guy. For this reason, i think i did a lot for them at the beginning, that i think other foreign teachers would have told them to go stick it where the sun dont shine.
To be honest, i dont really blame the schools that they choose so called "real foreigners" over BBC's because I would probably do the same in their position - however much it sucks for me, the story goes that the school is a business and as many of foreign teachers know, foreign teachers are just there for face - "come to our ABC school!! we have a white guy!! your english will be so good in a week just by talking to him!!!" you get the picture.
Advantages of being a BBC? well, i suppose i dont get the stares you lot talk abt and I can usually get away without being charged a "foreign tax" when i go out. - i.e. if they see you are foreign, they will just add a few extra RMB cos they think you can afford it. The language is also easier for me cos i speak cantonese and so i can learn mandarin faster.
are there any other bbc's out here? |
Why should you feel a need to fake? Just be yourself.
Picture this.
If you want to study Internet Technology or Dentistry, what kind of teacher should he/she look like? A bookworm? Elle Macpherson? etc etc? It doesn't matter just as long as the content is worth listening to. I[ve seen Asians, Africans, Lebonese and Greeks studying either Dentistry or Med. Not only that, many of my lecturers comes from all walks of life. Race, sex or age did not mean a thing. The key is how professional you can be.
They also say that if you are different, then you are special.
Good luck. |
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Minhang Oz
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Gouki, you're confirming my original posting that English teaching ability has got nothing to do with race, and we all know there are many incompetent "white asses", as you eloquently say , out there.
My concern is most of the "non-white asses" never get a chance to show their stuff. You've managed to do this, and break down the stereotype, as has a teacher in Chinasyndrome's school. But what about the others? Age is also a discriminatory factor many encounter.
However, your story provides some light at the end of the tunnel. |
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kimo
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 668
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Gouki wrote:
| Quote: |
| If people want to be racists, then schools may well recruit British teachers only as Americans can't spell nor speak properly. Australians mumble etc etc etc. Don't think that by having a white face, you are an automatic selection for being a teacher. If you are passionate about what you do, then it will show in your work. |
Just wondering who you are talking to here. The above seems like stereotyping to me. Are you saying you were stereotyped and want fair play?
| Quote: |
I may not look like an English teacher, but I have done it in 3 different asian countries, all have been exciting and enriching experiences.
I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it j/k. |
I've seen teachers of all persuasions. I can't say what they look like. Who says you don't look like an English teacher? Doesn't seem you paid them any mind if they did. You seem to have moved right past them and done well, however, I didn't know teaching English was a competition. |
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chinasyndrome
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: In the clutches of the Red Dragon. Erm...China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Gouki"]
| Quote: |
What students want are people who can speak/teach English clearly and are animated and interesting.
Race is irrelevant if you have what it takes to teach effectively. |
Absolutely unequivocally agree!
| Quote: |
| If people want to be racists, then schools may well recruit British teachers only as Americans can't spell nor speak properly. Australians mumble etc etc etc. Don't think that by having a white face, you are an automatic selection for being a teacher. If you are passionate about what you do, then it will show in your work. |
Pity about your racist comments, though.
| Quote: |
I may not look like an English teacher, but I have done it in 3 different asian countries, all have been exciting and enriching experiences.
I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it j/k. |
What does an English teacher look like? Submissions from the vets please. Prizes awarded to the best comments, corollaries, analogies, etc.
Is beating some white-arses (oops! Used British and not American English) an important function of teaching English? And mumblemumblemumblemumblemumble mumble. Oops again! Sorry, I'm an Australmumblemumblemumblemumblemumble. |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Minhang Oz wrote: |
Thanks Gouki, you're confirming my original posting that English teaching ability has got nothing to do with race, and we all know there are many incompetent "white asses", as you eloquently say , out there.
My concern is most of the "non-white asses" never get a chance to show their stuff. You've managed to do this, and break down the stereotype, as has a teacher in Chinasyndrome's school. But what about the others? Age is also a discriminatory factor many encounter.
However, your story provides some light at the end of the tunnel. |
Do take note of the smiley emoticon and "j/k" after my "white asses" comment. I'm not trying to come across as racist here, just trying to raise the bar a bit when it comes to the quality of teaching (at any level). Usually, the minorities have to try a little bit harder to convince everybody else that they are capable of doing the job. They may have a slight advantage because they have experienced the process of learning English as a second or third language. They would probably understand what their students are going through when learning English for the first time.
Like wine, a seasoned teacher can establish a strong rapport with his/her students very quickly, determine the pace of the class and think of an activity in 2 seconds. They are often looked upon with greater respect (kind of like a professor or something of the same calibre) due to the experiences they have. |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="chinasyndrome"]
| Gouki wrote: |
| Quote: |
What students want are people who can speak/teach English clearly and are animated and interesting.
Race is irrelevant if you have what it takes to teach effectively. |
Absolutely unequivocally agree!
| Quote: |
| If people want to be racists, then schools may well recruit British teachers only as Americans can't spell nor speak properly. Australians mumble etc etc etc. Don't think that by having a white face, you are an automatic selection for being a teacher. If you are passionate about what you do, then it will show in your work. |
Pity about your racist comments, though.
| Quote: |
I may not look like an English teacher, but I have done it in 3 different asian countries, all have been exciting and enriching experiences.
I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it j/k. |
What does an English teacher look like? Submissions from the vets please. Prizes awarded to the best comments, corollaries, analogies, etc.
Is beating some white-arses (oops! Used British and not American English) an important function of teaching English? And mumblemumblemumblemumblemumble mumble. Oops again! Sorry, I'm an Australmumblemumblemumblemumblemumble. |
Well, my apologees if my post came across as racist. I think I wrote "If people want to be racists, then schools may well...blah...blah...blah". I guess what I meant was, that if schools really wanted to be selective, then they would only hire British guys/gals and forget the rest. Luckily its not like that.
But, I'm sure that everyone on this board are serious teachers/instructors regardless of where they came from. But think about this, our students will emulate the way we speak and the grammar we use. Too much mumbling will result in "chinglish mumble". 
PS. "I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it j/k", I was thinking about playing basketball when I wrote this Again, had no intention to be racist. Competition is good to have. Raising the standard of our teaching will give us better respect, therefore deserving our "outstanding" salaries. |
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Gouki
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| kimo wrote: |
Gouki wrote:
| Quote: |
| If people want to be racists, then schools may well recruit British teachers only as Americans can't spell nor speak properly. Australians mumble etc etc etc. Don't think that by having a white face, you are an automatic selection for being a teacher. If you are passionate about what you do, then it will show in your work. |
Just wondering who you are talking to here. The above seems like stereotyping to me. Are you saying you were stereotyped and want fair play?
| Quote: |
I may not look like an English teacher, but I have done it in 3 different asian countries, all have been exciting and enriching experiences.
I may be among the few that can play this game and beat some white-asses at it j/k. |
I've seen teachers of all persuasions. I can't say what they look like. Who says you don't look like an English teacher? Doesn't seem you paid them any mind if they did. You seem to have moved right past them and done well, however, I didn't know teaching English was a competition. |
I have not been in the position to be stereotyped as yet, so no I am not asking for fair play. All I was trying to point out that IF the schools only wanted British speakers, and you were not British, then it wouldn't be fair for you and or other native english speakers. Same scenario for non-natives.
I think perhaps some teachers might have lost their gloss for teaching since it was not as easy as they thought it would be. Because of that, the standards for teaching has dropped. Its probably a wake up call for everyone because more qualified teachers are coming in, and they may not have blond hair or blue eyes.
I look too young to even look like a teacher. |
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MyTurnNow
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 860
Location: Outer Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Gouki wrote: |
| I think perhaps some teachers might have lost their gloss for teaching since it was not as easy as they thought it would be. |
Definitely. Not exactly the warm, enjoyable, academically-sound sessions with freshly-scrubbed, grateful, respectful, bright, eager kids, working for highly educated, saintly visionary benefactors in the company of other distinguished and developed minds many come here envisioning, is it?
| Gouki wrote: |
| Because of that, the standards for teaching has dropped. Its probably a wake up call for everyone because more qualified teachers are coming in. |
I somewhat disagree. On the big scale I'm not too convinced the standards have ever been all that high in the first place. It may be better in some universities and little islands of enlightenment, but once you brush aside the marketing hooey far too many school operators here don't really give a rat's ass about teaching standards. They just want the masses to get their bread and circuses (preferably from a white person) and sign up for the next level. And too many students here are actually much happier with bread and circuses as well...these want quick easy gratification and the LAST thing they want is a strong educational experience.
I'm also not yet convinced that the incoming quality is improving. Deteriorating Western economies are bringing a wider mix, not a narrower one IMHO. There ARE of course good people coming in...but then there always have been good teachers here. Standards and ability are now and always have been reliably determined ONLY on an individual basis.
MT |
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Kapt. Krunch
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone cares...I'm black and I teach in China. I am from Ontario(all over),Canada and now I teach in Haikou. When it comes to attitudes, Haikou is a rather open city in comparison to most in China. Its not even 1 million people, but it far excedes other cities in more central regions when it comes to acceptance. There are many reasons for this but I won't go into it now.
Still when I walk anywhere with my white buddy, people run up on him, talking non-stop,women hit on him etc. I've had(on more than one occasion) women talk to him and then ask himwho I am,do I speak english??etc. He just looks at them in amazement..."Why don't you ask him yourself?"
I am the product of a bi-racial marriage, white european blood and west indian african blood. I've been aware of racially based problems in Canada...then I came to China.
The problem is deeper than race...it's a simplicity issue. The superstition, the numbers, the lack of thought/logic in everyday life...it's all one.
The "field-worker " thing is just a part of a large puzzle.
For example, while many movies are incorrectly/inaccurately subtitled, ones with black characters are "NEVER" %$^correct. I've seen simple things twisted into obscenities.
"Can we get together sometime??" Subtitle- We should f$%k soon okay?!
I decided that I am not an ambassador to China. When people say stupid things, I tell them about it. I see behaviour that I find unacceptable, I challenge it. Playtime is over, and class is in session for the whole city.
Where does it say that we have to follow a "prime Directive"?? I have black friends that let it all go, "they don't know any better" .
I refuse to let people have brain farts in my presence. When someone sits at my table and insults me I'll tell them to leave. Ohhh, it happened more than once. All it takes is a little thought to realize that I shouldn't tell a flat chested girl that big breasted girls are much better looking etc. or a blonde that brunettes are wayyy smarter.
Rob
PS. " You like black???" total disbelief when told that I liked the nice tan that some Hainanese girls had vs. the cloud induced whiteness of the Sichuan girls. |
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MyTurnNow
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 860
Location: Outer Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Kapt. Krunch wrote: |
| I refuse to let people have brain farts in my presence. When someone sits at my table and insults me I'll tell them to leave. |
Well said. Being "diplomatic" doesn't mean you have to tolerate idiocy...and some things ARE defined the same way around the world.
I've also been bothered by the treatment black actors get in their movies when seen here. It's especially sickening to hear a magnificent black actor (Poitier, Samuel L., Denzel, etc.) dubbed into Chinese with a voice that's a 1930s "Stepin Fetchit"-type stereotype.
You often don't have to scratch too deep here to see the institutionalized racism. Encountered "Darlie" toothpaste yet? I think it may be Thai in origin, and until a few years ago it was "Darkie". There was such a hue and cry over it internationally that they changed the name to "Darlie" and made the race of the dapper figure on the label a LOT more ambiguous. But if you read it in Chinese it's still "Hei Ren Ya Gao"..."Black Person Toothpaste".
Keep fighting the good fight. There's still a long way to go.
MT |
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