Job Discussion Forums

[Sweetsee]

Edited out by me.

[Glenski]

No need to be so frigging rude, Sweetsee. And, since YOU were the one who brought up the term, how about YOU explaining what that "imitation" school is? Geez.

[Sweetsee]

Whoops, that was suppose to be a pm. I had a sneaky suspicion that I made that mistake.

For starters, Kocho-sensei tells me that some kids come to school to study and some come to play.

That and the fact that the school allows the students to make a mockery of my class over the duration of the year.

more to follow...

[Tonester]

I guess I'll be joining the NET ranks as I have successfully landed that position in Saitama thanks to last friday's interview. I'll start in September so it's good to read Sweetsee's ordeals as I may very well experience them myself.

[Mike L.]

[Tonester]

NET=Native English Teacher. Not an ALT but a fully-fledged teacher at a Junior/Senior High School. Tenure may/may not be offered.

In my case I'll be entering a Private HS and after a 3 year probation tenure will be offered if I prove myself to be competent.

[Sweetsee]

Nearly had a nervous breakdown today. Thought I had made up my mind to ride out the remainder of the term but with all the advice bouncing back and forth I some how got it in my head to try again to take control of the uncontollable.

Had 3 really good lessons and then the final period of the day was with the malcontents. They were carrying on as usual and I tried entering their space to quiet them. They hissed and spewed and later I lifted the podium and let it slam down. Whoops! Didn't loose my cool at all but let it be known that I meant business. Had everybody on task and was milling about checking their work on the material, encouraging all to finish up so we could conclude with the speaking task, same lesson I had had great success with all day.

Well, one was putting up a big fuss, mouthing off at me big time. I was calm, didn't look or say anything to her but 2 of her ilk were refusing to do anything. There was a little individual work in preparation for the speaking task. Well, time was running down and suddenly I remembered "Full Metal Jacket" and told the class that we would all be waiting until these 2 finished the writing work. I had actually convinced myself that this was going to work and that they would give in.

Chime sounded and for nearly 15 minutes we continued to wait until JTE would be showing up to conclude the day's lessons. He showed, I stepped out in the hall and explained what I was doing and I asked him to please see this through. I went to the staff room and returned to sit in the back of the room while devil child spewed and spewed non-stop, referring to me all the while as, "ano hito." I sat there calm, pretty happy with the way JTE was handling things until he cut them loose.

Next, I was livid and ready to collapse from anxiety. I busied myself with some gardening until JTE saw me and said some students wanted a word. In the meantime, several students had put their worksheets on my desk and I was happy about that.

So, 4 students, JTE and I sat down in a meeting room. The first student, 1/2 Singaporean boy, spoke first and said that he wanted conversation in the lesson. I agreed and told him that first we need to prepare and that's why we work on the material first. Of the 3 girls, one was a member of the gang, one was bullied at the start of the year by them and the other I had given an A because she was always working hard and showing great improvement.

Cut a long story short, they said they don't like the material, I won't make an effort to improve the atmosphere and JTE sat there and stood behind them. I was going out of my mind.

Everytime I spoke, they laughed, snickered and were taking the rudest tones. I told JTE that this is out of order and he said to me, "These are the good students, right? And they are saying that you suck!"

So, I went and fetched all the material I had, 5, 6 different texts; 50/50, AllTalk, etc. They looked through them, "Ahh, we did this and this and this. All this sucks!"

So, I said, "What do you want to do in the lesson?" "Conversation,"
they said. "Fine," I said. JTE first said they all want to talk to you one on one. Right! "21 students 45 minutes, do the math," I said.

Then, JTE backtracks and says, "They want you to speak." Right! A lecture?

One of them, the one we were all concerned about quitting school, was giving such heavy attitude. I asked what her problem was. I asked if I had ever done anything to her. "Yes," she said. And I knew exactly wjat she was going to say. The other day while the class was a ruckus, as usual, she was turned around chatting endlessly with her neighbor and I very calmly asked her to turn around and get busy with the individual work. Honestly, it was the only time I had ever bothered her. She went on to say that the print I had given them that day was the fourth time we had done it, which it was not but still it ws taking her 30 minutes to write 4 Yes/no questions of which 1/2 were wrong. I figure this one is just so happy to have the chance to slag me off as she wants to grease up to the bullies who had bullied her. I'm sure you can all see that.

So, this is going on and on, literally 2 1/2 hours. I mean, it is now after 6 o'clock. And JTE is behind them all the way! I was losing my mind.

I said to JTE, "This is all about 2 students that don't want to do anything!" He reminds me that Kocho and Kyoto had already told me that some come to school to play.

And I started in about what happened to the student/sensei thing. About how from the start of the year that group would never shut-up, about how what's her name here was bullied, another changed schools, 2 foreign exchange students up and quit and this is the "international" course of the "international" school?

Really, I had had enough. I decided to leave. What a bunch of idiots! Had I not booked up at that point we would probably still be sitting there.

I kept saying to JTE, "Since when do the students tell the teacher how to run the class?" He says, "We have to listen to the students. We staff must make good atmosphere in our classes."

He kept on about how I wasn't being flexible and something or other about 2 paralell lines. What ever that was supposed to mean.

So, there you have it. I told him I give up and I will come to class and everybody can do what they like. "No, no, no..." he says.

If you ever walked by some of the classes in our school you would see that is exactly wht goes on in the classrooms. Teacher carries on at the front and every one is yacking and doing what ever.

I make a lot of money there. Not a reason to stay. I like vacationing. The last vacation we took, we were stuck in Taiwan for 10 days, an utter waste of time and money. Is that a message from above, or what? I had never had a vacation before coming here and now I waste vacations.

The sick thing about it all is that I don't want to lose this gig!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh......(pain)

[homersimpson]

I tend to agree with Glenski. You "claim" to have 12 years of experience teaching and yet you still lack classroom management skills. How is this possible? You are either a poor teacher or you're ill-trained.

[Sweetsee]

I guess there is no point in this is there? You are not there. You never have been and never will be.

Figures...could be worse I guess.

And by the way...aah forget it.

[homersimpson]

[JimDunlop2]

Hmm.. East Vs. West I guess...

A few months back I had a chance to meet with some American teachers who were visiting Japan as part of the Fulbright Scholarship program. In other words, this is a cross-section of some of America's best K-12 teachers from across the country.

They had a chance to do some day visits to some of our local elementary and junior high schools and I asked them about their general impressions. The overwhelming response from MOST of them was: "the lack of discipline." The remaining few commented on the "non-existant" discipline.

Well, working with these kids every day, it's not that there isn't ANY discipline -- there just isn't any Western-style discipline. They do things their own way here.

Most of the times where I've tried to impose "my" style (aka. Canadian) junior-high discipline, I've been met by resistance from both students AND staff. Not all the time, but many times. Only some tactics work. And that's not universal. If I have a Japanese co-teacher, I've learned to rely on him/her to keep order.

The past few weeks I've been sick -- sore throat & cold. This means I cannot shout over a noisy class or raise my voice. It takes patience, but just standing there staring at them until they're quiet works well because the JTE is usually fairly tuned-in and quiets the class down for me. If not, I usually have a few words with them after class (very carefully, of course).

Maybe a Japanese approach would work for you... Blame yourself for your students' failures.... (in a manner of speaking). Have you ever thought of approaching one of your Japanese co-workers -- like the kyoto sensei or the head of the teaching staff -- anyone senior to you (sempai) and saying, "Look, can I ask you for some advice?" Then explain to them that you must be doing something wrong in the way you are teaching because your students aren't responsive to your lessons. Say that it must be your Western methodology and that you would really appreciate learning a more Japanese way to handle such issues. Perhaps suggest that he or another teacher could sit in on your class some day soon and take notes then give you some ideas on how to improve your delivery. Whatever becomes of it, you may learn something.

I mean, look at it this way. YOU are not their only teacher. Do these students behave this way with ALL teachers in the school? Or is it just you? If it is only with you then I highly recommend what I said above. If it's the same way for ALL teachers, then ask the other teachers how they cope/what they do in their classes to preserve sanity and some sense of order.

When I was in the eikaiwa business, I had a class that was VERY similar to yours. And I do mean VERY similar. There was no happy ending. To make a very long story short, I followed my own advice (about asking a senior staff to sit in on my lesson) and we decided that the solution was to have themanager of the school branch to sit in my lesson for the first 15 minutes of each lesson for almost a whole month... She kept order, made sure the students understood my instructions (their excuse for misbehaving was that they didn't understand my English and the work I wanted them to do was too difficult), explained things in Japanese when necessary, and got them to answer/speak in class when I couldn't. Well, this definitely broke them. It made them completely lobotomized. They became moldable like clay, but at the expense of any enthusiasm, speaking unless spoken to or even caring whether we did anything fun or not. It got so boring most of them dropped out and at the end of the term, and they started not showing up for class. None of them signed up for a new term. (Even I left!) But, because I did things the "Japanese way" no one could point the finger at me and say "bad teacher -- you lost us our customers." I compelled the eikaiwa to help me, which they did -- to the best of their Japanese abilities, in a very Japanese way -- which resulted in the inevitable. In a group-oriented society, failure as a group (or team) I think, is much more acceptable than if an individual fails -- because then the individual loses face.

You're probably best off turning to your co-workers for advice and support, as you are unlikely to find it on Dave's. The people here (me included) do not fully understand your situation, nor the scope or dynamics of the student-student; student-teacher; teacher-teacher interactions that are taking place. We are essentially offering shots in the dark based on how we might react if faced by a similar situation, or based on how we dealt with an actual similar situation. But at the end of the day, they are still just shots in the dark. You need to sit down and discuss this at length with someone who has a first-hand view of the situation. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference if someone has 1 year experience or 30. I will bet that even most of the Fulbright teachers would find cross-cultural discipline issues before realizing that kids in America actually ARE a little different than kids in Japan -- different enough to warrant unique control strategies. I hope you can be in a position to explore this option because in the end, the answer you get will likely be better than anything what someone at Dave's can offer.

Good luck.

[Glenski]

Sweetsee,
You should not mouth off at people who are giving you advice here. Your response to homer was way out of line (as usual when you get a response that differs from what you expect). Apologize.

Second, I think it is extremely interesting to wade through all of your recent posts on this thread and find this buried in them...

[Sweetsee]

Good morning Homer,


I am sorry for what I said. I am feeling like a cornered cat here. I do not agree with what you said and fail to see the point of it but that does not justify my responses to your reply.

Please except my apologies.


Sincerely,
s

[Mike L.]

[Deconstructor]

Hey Sweetsee, so glad I found your thread.

Anyone teaching kids is fundamentally concerned with discipline. There are many things you can do and the people here have come up with all kinds of good advice.

Mine will probably not help you much, but here goes. Working with primary as well as secondary students back home in Canada, I've tried every technique in the book and they all yield limited results. For me it was my attitude. When I walk into that class, they know that I will not be defeated. It is difficult to explain, but students smell insecurity and fear (I'm not suggesting you feel any of these, but we are human and not always emotionally up to face the daily music). I guess what I'm saying is that you gotta feel that power and when you do they will get a whiff of that too. You shall never have a problem in class again.