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Indiana Jones
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: 31 y.o., No Degree, just a Diploma: is Japan possible? |
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My hardluck story: Last year, in June, I skipped along to a famous recruitment centre in Melbourne Australia to sign up for teaching english in Japan. I had a pen in my pocket and I was ready to sign any and all forms put in front of me. The receptionist however told me I was far too early and that if I wanted to leave for Japan in January 2005, it'd be best for me to come back and apply in September/October. As I was on a lunch-break from work and had to get back, I didn't question her or insist on signing the dotted line then and there.
A few weeks later, in July, I turned 31.
Months later, in September, I return to sign up, only to be told that I am now too old to qualify for a holiday working visa. To make it worse, I was told that I could still work full-time if I had a degree: alas, my diploma won't do, even if it is a diploma of professional writing & editing (if spending two years studying the english language, the grammar and punctuation and correct usage doesn't qualify me to teach it part-time, then what does?).
I was, naturally, shattered. I had my heart set on living and working in Japan, but alas, Fate decided to kick me where a brass monkey freezes in winter.
I'm 31 years old. I have a Diploma of Arts: Professional Writing & Editing. I have a reference from a children's fiction author who has had over 150 books published, and has almost 40 years teaching experience. Is this enough? Is there a loophole, a tiny itty loophole, I can crawl through?
I'm also writing a children's book heavily influenced by Miyazaki (Gretchen Gloomberry and her ghost cat named Moshi Moshi are drawn to a mysterious museum of mythology, folklore and imagination owned by a shadowy Japanese billionaire who made his fortunes in anime). Can I use this to get some sort of visa so I can go to Japan for research? Is there a program that sponsors writers such as me? Is there any way I can use this angle to live and work in Japan?
I'm desperate. I still have the option of going to China, which I'm planning for right now, but Japan is my all-time number one first choice. I love China's history and culture, and I'm sure I'll have the experience of a lifetime there, but if I can still make it to Japan for a year, I'll take that opportunity and run with it.
If anyone has any advice, please post it here or email me (definitely post it here because I'd hate to think there are others in my position -- if this post can alert other 30 year olds that their time is almost up and they only have one more chance, then we've done a great deed).
Domo arigato,
Rick |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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RIck
your reference with 40 years experience doesnt amount to a hill of beans with immigration. Its you who is applying for a visa, not them. You have to pass the immigration requirements. Immigration makes the rules, not your employer and if they say you need a degree to get a visa that's what you must have.
Your only choices here are:
1. depending on where you got your diploma, you may have to gain extra credits and bump it up to a degree. With no degree you cant get a work visa, no matter who your friends are.
2. 3 years teaching experience in the field, that means 3 years of ESL or related experience.You can then apply for a Humanities visa with no degree.
3. Marry a Japanese and get a spouse visa.
None of the above and you have Buckley's (i.e. none) chance of getting a visa to work here. |
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Indiana Jones
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Paul. I pretty much knew Japan is now a closed door to me, but I thought I'd try. Stranger things have happened.
I just don't get why so many employers and governments think a degree is better than a diploma. A Degree in Thumb Twiddling will get me a job teaching oral and written english in Japan, but a Diploma in English Language won't. It's an upside down world.
I'm going to China. Japan's economy is crashing anyway, plus every man and their dog is there hitting on Japanese women, I don't want to add to those numbers. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Indiana Jones wrote: |
Thanks Paul. I pretty much knew Japan is now a closed door to me, but I thought I'd try. Stranger things have happened.
I just don't get why so many employers and governments think a degree is better than a diploma. A Degree in Thumb Twiddling will get me a job teaching oral and written english in Japan, but a Diploma in English Language won't. It's an upside down world.
I'm going to China. Japan's economy is crashing anyway, plus every man and their dog is there hitting on Japanese women, I don't want to add to those numbers. |
Indy,
Immigration has to draw the line somewhere. You're right that a bee keeping degree doesn't do much to teach kids English, but neither would a diploma in mechanics. There is no shortage of people who are teaching English here even with a university degree as a qualification. Enjoy China. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Indiana Jones wrote: |
TI just don't get why so many employers and governments think a degree is better than a diploma. A Degree in Thumb Twiddling will get me a job teaching oral and written english in Japan, but a Diploma in English Language won't. It's an upside down world.
I'm going to China. Japan's economy is crashing anyway, plus every man and their dog is there hitting on Japanese women, I don't want to add to those numbers. |
Because immigration doesnt know anything about language teaching and what teachers need to do their jobs. As long as they have stuck out 3 or 4 years at university you qualify. It doesnt even need to be a third-rate, first world degree.
Every man and his dog can do a one-month diploma and call themselves an English teacher though. Either that or print a degree or diploma off the Internet. |
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
Your only choices here are:
2. 3 years teaching experience in the field, that means 3 years of ESL or related experience.You can then apply for a Humanities visa with no degree.
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I can't see this working at all. Hello immigration, I worked at ABC English school in ____________. I think I'm eligible for a working visa.
I think you're pretty much hooped. I've heard of people changing their working holiday visa to a work visa with their diploma, but that's not the norm...they got lucky. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| canuck wrote: |
| PAULH wrote: |
Your only choices here are:
2. 3 years teaching experience in the field, that means 3 years of ESL or related experience.You can then apply for a Humanities visa with no degree.
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I can't see this working at all. Hello immigration, I worked at ABC English school in ____________. I think I'm eligible for a working visa.
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Canuck, these are the visa guidelines for Humanities visa
The applicant must fulfill the following conditions. However, these conditions shall not apply in cases where the applicant plans to engage in work involving proxy duties in procedures relating to international arbitration cases as designated in Article 58-2 of the Foreign Lawyer's Law (Law No. 66 of 1986).
1. When planning to engage in work requiring knowledge in the humanities, the applicant must have acquired the relevant knowledge by graduating from college majoring in a subject relevant to the knowledge required for performing the work concerned, or by receiving an equivalent or higher level of education, or by accumulating at least 10 years of practical experience in the planned work (including the period of time spent majoring in a subject related to the required knowledge at college, "Koto senmongakko", senior high school, the latter half of unified secondary school, or during specialized course of study at an advanced vocational school ("Senshugakko")).
2. When planning to engage in work requiring specific ways of thought or sensitivity based on experience with foreign culture, the applicant must fulfill the following conditions:
The applicant is to engage in translation, interpretation, language instruction, public relations, advertising, overseas transactions, fashion or interior design, product development, or other similar work.
The applicant must have at least 3 years of experience in work relating to the relevant job. However, this does not apply if the applicant has graduated from college and is planning to engage in work involving translation, interpreting, or language instruction |
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mithridates
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| I got that visa the last time I was in Japan. I was in Fukuoka and we faxed immigration a copy of my JLPT Level 1 and used that in place of a degree (which I don't have). |
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Indiana Jones
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| What's JLPT? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Indiana Jones wrote: |
| What's JLPT? |
Japanese Language Profiency Test. Like the Japanese version of TOEFL
Level 1 and Level 2 are the highest levels of the test. |
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Iwantmyrightsnow
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is that a 2 or 3 year diploma? Where is it from?
I got my original working visa based upon a 3 year diploma of education from a college in oz. It was accepted no probs. |
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Indiana Jones
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Iwantmyrightsnow wrote: |
Is that a 2 or 3 year diploma? Where is it from?
I got my original working visa based upon a 3 year diploma of education from a college in oz. It was accepted no probs. |
2 year diploma unfortunately. Well, not really unfortunately because it's still a very good diploma. It's from Holmesglen TAFE, but I started it at RMIT. Hmm, it took me almost 4 years to complete, maybe I can just say it's a 3 year diploma and hope nobody checks!  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Iwantmyrightsnow wrote: |
| IsI got my original working visa based upon a 3 year diploma of education from a college in oz. It was accepted no probs. |
When you say education diploma do you mean a university degree from a university? Is that the same as a college, or is its a TAFE or teachers college?
Keep in mind you can get a Humanities visa with no degree if you have 3 years experience or equivalent qualifications. An education (non-degree) diploma or teaching diploma may count, and Im not sure if you are saying a degree is the same as a diploma here. |
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gt37
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Osaka
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canuck
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1921
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: |
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How does he get a visa? They are probably willing to hire someone on a spouse visa or a working holiday visa. Schools can't bypass immigration.  |
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