Job Discussion Forums

[shadowcorps]

Hello, born in Montreal, I'm a student in my last year in CEGEP (equivalent of 1st year university outside of the province of Quebec). I studied in the International Baccalaureate Program in commerce and have a predicted IB grade of 41 and 34.6 CRC (R score, Quebec grading system). I speak and write english, french, cantonese and mandarin. I tutor in different subjects in (calculus, linear, stats, business, computer science, ecology) my college for different centers. As a coach in badminton and coach of a hockey team in my college, I show great leadership and interpersonal skills. The cons are: I will turn 19 by the time I go to China (quite young compared to official teachers), I don't have a TEFL certificate and I never taught abroad of Canada.

Now I have several questions about tutoring abroad in China. I plan to go to China as a trip for fun, before I go to Concordia University and study in Actuarial Math and finance. Planned to go there for maybe few weeks. As a student, I do not have a lot of money, so I'm seeking opportunities in teaching abroad. The salary doesn't have to be high or anything, as long as I have a place to stay for free (such as a school's dorm) or some sort of revenue to help cover my expenses. Some of my friends who emigrated from China to Canada told me I can offer tutoring services there (especially in english and french). Therefore, I would like to see if it is possible for me to provide private tutoring or tutoring in some classes, despite of my young age and lack of TEFL certificate. And I would like to know your opinions.

Thank you

[shadowcorps]

oh, it is normal that there are few contracts asking for only few weeks of tutoring. I can, as well, go to China for a month, maybe a month and few weeks maximum if the working contract cant be short, since I do have to come back to Montreal to continue my studies.
Thank you.

[anthyp]

Let me get this straight -- a one month job for a 19 year old who has no degree, no experience, and not even a TEFL? Do you mean a real job or some sort of shady arrangement with your landlord's kids while you wait to get on with your own education?

First of all, nobody "tutors" here. We are employed as Foreign Experts for the organizations sponsoring our Z Visas. Second, Z Visas are not granted for one month stays, so you are not going to find any jobs of that sort. Aside from all that, though, you are not at all qualified to teach here.

Not legally, not by any stretch of the imagination. The list of qualifications for the Foreign Expert's Certificate includes a Bachelor's degree or five years' relevant experience in the field of teaching. That list of qualifications can be found here:

http://www.ebeijing.gov.cn/Jobs/ForeignExperts/EconomicTechnological/t20030927_39645.htm

And no, your tutoring experience probably won't count. (What does tutoring badminton have to do with teaching English?) If you do not meet these qualifications you cannot get a FE Certificate; regardless of how many people have them here in spite of not being qualified, there is no legal way.

The simple fact, which others will try to distort with their own sordid tales of how they are working here under the radar, is that you cannot work in this country. Now, could you come here on a Tourist or Business Visa (hell whatever's cheaper right?) and find some hapless person desperate enough to pay you for English lessons? That is not a rhetorical question, I just don't know the answer to it, nor do I care.

There are plenty of volunteer opportunities here, and that's all you could get considering your qualifications and how long you're willing to stay. I would recommend you look into that, or forget about teaching here completely. Again, there is no way you are going to find a one - month, legal job.

I feel like I am being a bit hard on you, but you must understand that we are professionals; being asked by a student if he can just show up and expect to get paid to do what we do is somewhat irksome.

[kev7161]

Weeellllll, summer camp jobs are starting to advertise now. Most of them say come here on a tourist's visa 'cause you're only here for a month. I'm sure most of them look for young, energetic, sporty types like you and you'll probably easily connect with the kids. They'll give you a place to stay, feed you, and even pay you money. As long as you can speak English, can get the kids to speak (or sing) English, and have a bunch of English-based games and activities in your bag, you'd do just fine.

[anthyp]

Yikes, sorry for coming across so harshly in that last post ...

Ahem, actually kev has a pretty good idea -- you could come over with a summer camp. I don't think it would be anything like tutoring, but ... you would get paid.

Would it be perfectly legal? That isn't a rhetorical question, either, I don't really know. I would think those positions are primarily intended for teachers already in the country, who already have the Visa, but don't quote me on that.

I would edit that last post, however I like leaving my rants up, to serve as reminders for me to ease up on the coffee (or beer, when applicable).

[Talkdoc]

Anthyp, what you initially wrote was harsh but it was also "dead on balls" accurate. (The only thing I would add is that the five years experience exception is limited to technical and vocational "experts," such as an industry certified computer specialist who does not possess a bachelor's degree and whose skills are deemed "necessary" by the PRC. Teachers need a bachelor's degree and, technically, two years of related work experience: although historically and unofficially, a TEFL certificate was typically accepted in lieu of that experience.)

[kev7161]

I rarely go up against Talkdoc on these forums as he seems to be revered around here, but here goes:

A summer job would be in and out so quickly, I personally feel it wouldn't matter which kind of visa he had. A lot of long-timers here in China relish that summer off and use it to travel or go home for a visit. There are plenty of summer jobs out there and the competition isn't fierce.

Now, if the OP said he wanted to come here for a longer time, say several months or a year or two, then by all means he should be here legally just like all the rest. However, if I'm not mistaken, MOST schools (who are on the up-and-up, that is) actually get your Zvisa/residence permit and your teaching certificate for you.

Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. Are some of you really that incensed that summer camp workers are coming here on TOURIST visas and actually, *gasp!* getting paid? Really?

[Talkdoc]

Kevin - you are probably correct that Shadowcorps can find work quickly at a summer camp, having entered China with a tourist Visa, and be out of here before he incurs any problems with the PSB.

But let me ask you in all seriousness: don't you have any compunctions or reservations at all about the type of experience that might be expected from a private English language school willing to hire a 19-year old "kid" entering China on a tourist Visa? I do. And maybe I do because I worked for such an outfit (one that produced fake degrees for their employees) and I observed, first-hand, how such schools (ones that have complete disregard for their own laws) treat their staff: with contempt and complete abandon, nickel-and-diming them every chance they get and treating them as if they were personal property. Show me a school that hires employees with anything other than a Z-Visa or forges degrees for them in order to process the work Visa and I will show you a school that disrespects its foreign teachers and treats them like chattel. Shadowcorps impressed me as a young man who deserved a lot better than that. (I will also share with you that I did wonder to myself, because of his fluency in both Mandarin and Cantonese, if he wasn't a Canadian-born Chinese: if so, he may not be so quickly picked up by any school because, at that level of employment, foreigners are hired almost entirely to boost enrollment: assuming, of course, he doesn't look the part.) For those reasons, I deliberately wrote my reply in a manner designed to discourage him: not out of any sense of moral indignation and certainly not out of any need to be right.

If all you are addressing yourself only to the probability that he might be able to get �a job� and get out of Dodge before incurring any legal problems, then you are most likely correct: but at what personal cost to him? I honestly feel the odds are great that he would have a terrible time in China, for a variety of reasons, under the conditions he described. Of course, I am just going on probability here based on what I have observed; he could get lucky (but I was never a betting man).

Doc

[shadowcorps]

Hello all, and thank you for replying.

anthyp: sorry for not clarifying. I don't intend to be an official teacher or a a certified professional working at a university or some sort, nor do the same level of teaching and receive the same pay as all of you. And considering the volunteer activities, I wouldn't mind doing it, as long as I have a place to stay. My goal to go to China is to relax during the summer holidays before I go to university. Thus, I am looking for places to stay, which will reduce considerably my expenses. And if possible, a small source of income to pay my leisures or my ticket plane, whatever I can cover.

You are right that coaching in badminton has nothing to do, I was just introducing myself and some activities I do at school, so that you guys know me better. Sorry for this point.

Some of my friends suggested me about "tutoring", I believe this is what you mentioned in your message: setting arrangments with some richer families that pays someone like me to talk in english with their children and make them practice and so on. I hope that is not too illegal, else I wouldn't mind doing that.

No problem if you might be harsh, I don't take it as a criticism, I rather take it as feedback, and thank you.

kev7161: making arrangment with families, or summer camp would do. Some sources told me that there are currently high demand for english peer tutors (or teachers if tutor is not the correct word). Do you know any good websites with these schoolcamps?

And if it's not legal to officially work, (which would be the last thing I want to do), would offering community services in China without any official papers be illegal also? (again, I just need some source of "financial support" can I say.)

Talkdoc: I'm a canadian-born chinese indeed. I went to a french elementary and french high school, while attending weekend chinese school at the same time (despite mandaring being the official language, i am not as fluent in mandarin than as in cantonese, but that wont be a major issue. also, I will be able to improve my mandarin if i go to China). I'm attending an english college and will attend an english university this fall 2005.

I wouldn't want to find a job in Canada, because my whole purpose was to go to China as a trip. But obviously, if I can't go to China, I'll probably stay in Montreal and find a summer job (which won't be a hard thing) to kill time.

Once again, thank you all for replying.

[Roger]

The essential has already been said. Let me add that your best chances are , as already pointed out, with summer camps. I doubt they are going to be that much 'fun', but you can try anyway.
The downside is that as an ethnic Chinese you might be their last hope. The have ntheir racial preferences - blame them for that, but you won't change their mindset. Also, je ne crois pas que quelqu'un voudrais embaucher un francophone. Ta - pratiquemment! - seule chance serait avec Academie francaise a Canton, Hongkong ou Pekin.

[rickinbeijing]

To Nineteen in Montreal: from what you've said about your education, you're obviously bright but that in and of itself does not a teacher make. If you're looking to relax, best to stay put in the land of maple leaves for any genuine effort to teach or tutor will tax you. If your primary motivation is to travel or contemplate Buddha, you'll probably end up doing your students a disservice. TalkDoc is almost correct: the likelihood is indeed much greater that you'll find yourself in a less-than-professional setting if you're invited on a F visa, etc. But that is not always the case. Some companies just find the F visa more convenient (for them, of course) and keep renewing it through their connections without so much as a quiver about the PBS.

Summer camp is the best bet. Try to find one that has been doing it for a few years if you can and good luck. Oh, and don't expect your Chinese face to help you; as has been initimated, more likely than not it will hinder you.
____________________

"So what has this got to do with the price of tea in China?"
-Harry Truman

[7969]

i hate to diverge from the pack but someone with no education and experience can surely get a job teaching english in china. i was replaced in my former job by a 19 yo with neither of the above and apparently it was done legally. she never lasted however. but it was done.

this is a college however that has gone thru more than a dozen teachers in the past 18 months. wasnt a bad place to work, but they really seemed to place no value on keeping the same staff from one term to the next. after all, one week i was the best foreign teacher they ever had, next week, i wasnt wanted.