Job Discussion Forums

[PeterGriffin]

I am teaching oral English in a small college, and lately I have had problems with a class in which none of the students try to speak. When I call on a student to try to speak they fucking look at me like I'm crazy and say nothing. this class is about 52 students 90% shy Asian girls, and the other 10% are too cool for you type guys. So I have to put up with this bullshit for a hour and a half and I'ts come to the point where I am so angry with the class that I don't even want to show up, any activity I have any game or even work they basically refuse to do because it's to boring. Beleive me I have searched this website from top to bottom and about 1 or 2 activities sparks their interest, but that simply is not enough. So my question is, should I really stop worrying about what keeps these students entertained and start cracking down on them? Keep in mind this school has no guidlines that I have to follow, so could someone just please offer me some advice?

PeterGriffin

[dearbarbie]

hmm, *thinks*, sounds a bit like my classes here - although maybe your situation is more extreme. what i did with my class...:

-told them that their oral participation went towards their final grade
-introducing a 'penalty-points' system from Monday as they refuse to shut up and listen, and I swear I'm sick to death of mobile phones.
-i give them group work to do - they keep talking in Chinese though and its driving me mental.
-today i gave them a presentation (was homework) and they had to do a 'tv documentary' in front of the class in groups of 4. they were reading :S but hey, at least I got them saying something.

i was quite soft for a few weeks but they're taking the piss like I was warned so I'm coming down a lot harder now.

my problem is more behaviour-related, and also with comprehension. i'm sure that they're not ready for a native speaker, that they should still have a chinese teacher who can babysit them and explain everything I say.

im probably not any help but let us know how it goes? is it that they are shy or simply do not understand? i know the crazy stares feeling, and they will not tell you if they do not understand. i keep telling them that i cannot read their bloody minds!!

[anthyp]

Yikes, like dearbarbie I think many of us can relate to what you're going through here ...

I got stuck with those hopeless, meandering "Oral English" classes my first term at this school (which is a small college like yours). The first time I walked into a classroom with 90 + students in it, I didn't come back. Then I insisted they chop any of my classes over 40 into a more manageable size, which they did. It's easier to deal with 20 or 30 of these underwhelming brats than when 50 of them are gathered en masse.

But I know that some of us don't have administrations as accomodating. If it's only one class that's giving you trouble, then I'd suggest bringing the matter up with your section leader (or whatever they call your department head), and maybe that person will talk to (read: chew out) the class for you, so afterwards you find things easier. This is what I had to do with one of my classes, and they didn't give me any trouble for the rest of the term (I actually grew quite fond of them towards the end, strangely).

In a small college you may have a lot of leeway, and they probably want to keep you happy, so if you bring the matter up with somebody, and it's just one class, they will find a way to resolve the matter for you. If not, then I don't know what you mean by "cracking down on them," but that's something you should have been doing from Day 1 -- so yes, I'd go for that.

And by the way, I find it helpful to constantly remind students of why you're there -- to learn, and, once they get over the illusion that you are willing to entertain any kind of atmosphere that isn't entirely focused on learning (i.e. you are not going to play games or sing songs with them), they will come to respect you more for it in the long run.

Talk to your section leader, and toughen up in the meantime; and if nothing comes of either, try not to take it personally: your students are just as apathetic and listless with their Chinese instructors, at least, when they're awake.

[Roger]

"Oral" English is the bane for me - never liked the very concept of it, and from the start found it to be a hellish assignment. Yet, it can be manageable.
First thing: speaking English is not only about producing foreign noises but much more about responding to someone's communicative act. Thus, my students must first of all learn to understand what is being said before they reply or repeat.
Now, you cannot make 52 students "understand" and respond to individually what you are saying; you can only prod individuals into doing just that. How about asking one per group to answer your queries? Divide them itno groups, and require them to speak up one per group and class and get a mark for doing that.

Of course, you can still find this to be bothersome. Therefore, I suggest you not concentrate too much on their ORAL production but on their AURAL functionality. I often dictate a story of around 200 words in simplified English. This ensures they have to work individually on their vocabulary and comprehension; even so the simplest sentences are often a real problem for a good many of these students because they have been learning English in a piecemeal fashion - words only, not the English language as such.
But those dictations prove their weaknesses - poor comprehension, poor grammar (why do they still write nouns in the singular when you clearly pronounce the plural-S?), besides a lot of spelling problems.
When they have written the story they routinely understand it as they can "see" the story rather than rely on their hearing alone. And this is what you will have to develop: their ability to rely on their hearing and understanding WHOLE sentences rather than single words only.

Also, many oral English teachers fail to ask their students to do homework. Students only come to your class to get away from the daily grind of "learning" (rote-learning). In short, they pretend attending your lessons when in fact many are doing their homework for other teachers.

Don't worry too much about stories to read aloud to them (and to dictate); you can make them up, of course, or you can buy a thin book published in China. Those stories should be entertaining, of course; try jokes.

[7969]

[Talkdoc]

[Babala]

Peter,
I had the same sort of problem with a few of my classes when I used to teach college. First thing, getting them to volunteer to answer any questions can be near to impossible with some classes, even though they may well know the answer. I got all of them to choose an english name (or you can use their Chinese names) and I would simply ask them them questions, making sure to cover the whole class. I also had classes with about 60 or so students. I would not stand at the front of class either. I would walk in and out of their desks, covering the room many times. I agree with the others that group work is good suggestion. Choose a topic, you talk about it some and then assign a group task. Debates are another way to go, I usually had luck with those. Go to the Bogglesworld.com They have great handouts and quiz ideas that may spark some interest. Good luck

[Kurochan]

I agree with Babala here -- the students in my class HAVE to speak, because I make them. I assign them a couple questions at the end of each class, and then call on students to answer them the next time we're together. I keep a record of who I've called, and grade their answer. I sometimes ask students to comment on each others' answers (like, "What did you think of her answer? Why?" or, "Where did she say she went for vacation?"), and if a student is goofing off I call on him or her immediately. Another thing is that I've been taught that changing activities after 20 minutes is a good thing and keeps students from getting bored. For example, I do Q&A, then give them vocabulary, then give a little mini-lecture, then an activity. My classes are 90 minutes, and that generally fills them up.

[brsmith15]

Set 52 stakes out on the lawn, tie each student to one, pile tinder and small branches at the bottom, soak all the combustibles in gasoline and light them up.

Keep the charred bodies there in sight of your classroom. When the next class shows up have them look out the window.

OR, do what the Great Kahn did when his army lost a battle. Behead every tenth person.

[The Voice Of Reason]

...

[kev7161]

Without hijacking this thread (because the following pertains to the problems the OP is having), what do YOU feel, exactly, constitutes "Spoken English" class (or, *shudder*, "Conversational English")?

I mean, if I asked you: "What is your favorite food?" Maybe you would say to me, "Pizza." Odds are you probably wouldn't say: "My favorite food is pizza." Well, my students are notorious for answering in one word sentences. I say to them, "Please use full sentences when answering." You know, so they can get used to them. Well, that's pie-in-the-sky dreams around here.

So, my goal for a "Spoken English" class are the following:

1. Improve their listening skills - - can they understand what I'm saying? How do I know? By the answers they give me, how well they follow instructions, by the nodding of heads.

2. Improve their pronunciation - - when my kids read a passage, I am constantly amazed (this year, especially, with my Senior 2 kids) how their pronunciation has improved from a year ago. And I tell them so.

3. Let them practice their "conversational" skills - - sadly, this is not for all my students. The ones that have grasped the idea of conversing are the ones that I let practice with me, both inside and outside the classroom. We have little chats before and after class. While the classmates are doing a written task, perhaps I'll call on one of my more advanced students (who have already done their workbook, like, 5 weeks ago!) to help me with something, translating a note perhaps.

4. Introduce new vocabulary, slang, idioms, and foreign ideas to them - - they may not speak too much, but I still try to expose them to the outside world.

5. Try to have a "relaxing" class - - although I want them to take my class seriously, I also try to have a little fun with them: listen to music, watch a DVD, give them EASY exams, let them move around the classroom, etc. I have pictures on the walls as well as maps and other visual things. I think especially in a foreign language class, the students should not feel pressurized to "perform" for me, rather I hope that it will start to flow more naturally.

Often I'm frustrated by the lack of English I get out of most of my students, but I think they just won't (or can't) use it. Why, I don't know.

[Roger]

The "cultural" dimension of this problem is that CHinese students grow up in a group-orientated environment in which whole classes engage in collective work - watch Chinese teachers do their classes: students seem to be happy as they mimick his every word and action, the whole class roaring after him English vocables (though never entire sentences). Thus, when they come to an "oral" class they are not prepared for the challenge of speaking up as an individual. This is a sort of paradigm shift that most cannot execute.
You have to reward their cooperation and penalise laziness. Use marks. And, it is equally important to monitor their presence and absences - your classes are the ones where they will most likely play truant! This is because they take it the least seriously - as they should because your class is held by a FT, not a "serious" Chinese teacher...

[Songbird]

Hey all,

I'm jumping on the bandwagon here- okay, I don't teach oral but I have the lucky job of teaching reading and writing to university students (grade 2). Unfortunately the college (and the students themselves are obsessive about me using the prescribed text, which are so dull (though the reading text IMO does have a few interesting articles), but I'm lucky and imaginative enough that I skim, give my own examples and basically act like a dancing clown while still getting the work covered. So I don't have hundreds of writing tasks to mark at home each & every week I sometimes get students to stick their writing on the classroom walls and talk to each other about mistakes and how to improve (while I am also walking around reading), which makes their writing a little more competitive.

All expect 1 of my classes are pretty good, or great. This one class are a pack of stunned mullets when you talk to them, will not listen to you (depsite repeating yourself 5 times slower and sssllooowwerrr) to the point that I have to be, well, a Nazi to get them to do anything. I lost it in yesterday's class and I'm still feeling guilt about it, I asked everyone to stop what they were doing (again, 10 times) so we can discuss each other's work etc etc. I ended up slamming my textbook really hard on the desk. They stopped. Then I counted how many people had put their writing up, and I said 'There's 1 more person, who has not put their writing up yet?' No answer. I'm walking around asking this again and trying to pinpoint the person, no answer. I raise my voice. Finally I guy gets up, does his little giggle thing that Chinese guys like to do and scurried over to the wall to stick his writing up. I just went ballistic and yelled, 'Why does no one listen to me? All the other classes do! I never have problems with them!'. Thankfully (probably because of the outburst!) everyone eagerly followed every direction for the rest of the class. But I still feel guilty, I just know everyone is talking about it now and calling me the Laowai Nazi!!!

Sorry for the long post everyone, just wanted to vent a little!

[Talkdoc]

The "cultural dimension to this problem" is that the vast majority of our students have no more interest in learning English than I had in learning Spanish in high school. Spanish was a required course; I had to take (and pass) two years of it in order to receive a diploma: period. My desire to really learn Spanish didn't emerge until many years later when it was clear to me that being able to converse, at least conversationally, in Spanish could help me enormously (while living in South Florida). Then I had occasion to win a significant training contract in the Dominican Republic and then, and only then, did I really put my mind and energy into learning it.

Ask your students how much they think they will need or use oral English after they graduate from college and see what they tell you. The vast majority will correctly inform you that they will never use one word of spoken English ever again after they graduate. Unless they are working for an international hotel or company located in a city heavily populated with foreigners, they will speak Chinese at work, at home and outside in public. That's 99% of the problem in a nutshell and in that context, China's relationship to English is a schizophrenogenic one; parents borrow money from relatives and spend every last jiao of their hard-earned money to drag their four-year olds to English schools across China when, in fact, the vast majority of those kids will never need or use one word of it after they pass the CET-4 some eighteen years later. These college kids are enrolled into 12 to 17 classes per week; some of them are attending classes up to 40 hours per week. Put yourself in their shoes: would you want to invest valuable time and what little energy you had left, to study a foreign language you absolutely, positively knew you will never need or use once you graduate from college? Sure, there are some who just love learning a foreign language (I have a few of those, just like I had classmates 34 years ago who enjoyed memorizing Spanish verb conjugation). There are even a handful who aspire to study abroad, sit for the IELTS or TOEFL exams or marry a foreigner � but the vast majority couldn�t care less, not really.

That's why I teach to content entirely: because if I can peak their interest in the subject matter, they might become sufficiently motivated to improve their vocabulary and listening skills just enough in order to both follow and participate in it - but if you can't do that, you are speaking to deaf ears - no matter what techniques or methods you decide to employ. Most foreigners in China, even ones who have been here for several years, speak just enough Chinese in order to survive: to order food in a restaurant and to tell the taxi drivers where to go � because that is, for most of us, the entire extent of our interest in learning Chinese (even though we actually live here). When it comes to studying a foreign language, motivation (interest) is everything.

Doc

[shenyanggerry]

One thing I've done with my classes ids to tell them it's English practice. I say that just like football or basketball, the more you practice the better you get. I know I've got it made when I hear one student tell another "speak English!"

Roger, why take attendance. Let the little @#$&% that don't want to be there cut the class. There's no requirement to pass them at the end.