Job Discussion Forums

[yodetta]

Gtreetings,

I'd like to work/teach abroad soon, and have the option of obtaining an M.A. in Organizational Managment and Psychology before doing so (it's a 60-unit, 1 yr program). Does anyone think this degree will help open doors to jobs beyond teaching English and/or higher salaried positions?

I already have a B.A. and several years of grad school.

My preference would be to go to Japan (or maybe China), although I'd like to hear what folks think about the Eastern European job market as well.

thanks kindly,
Yodetta

[sojourner]

Yodetta,

With a Master's degree in any discipline, you'll have no problem in picking up a teaching job in a Chinese college or uni. In fact, with an MA in Organisational Management, you may well be asked to teach subjects other than the usual Oral English,eg: Business English, Management, International Business, etc.

With your background, you may wish to consider the area known as EAP (English for Academic Purposes), with respect to , say, HRM graduates who are contemplating enrolling in postgraduate courses in the US, UK, etc. But to teach EAP, it might be necessary for you have some knowledge of relevant areas of Applied Linguistics, such as Genre Analysis, Discourse Analysis, ESP (English for Specific Purposes), etc. In your proposed Master's programme, will you be allowed to include some subjects that are not related to O.M. and psychology ? If so, you may wish to include a couple of pertinent Applied Linguistics units.

Good luck.

Peter

[yodetta]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Peter.
I'll have an MA in Political Science before starting the MAOM & Psych btw.

The school I'll be attending only has professional programs in Education, Psych and Management...and the Ed program has a primary school certification focus. There aren't any course options in Linguistics, discourse, etc.....But I was wondering about the possibility of teaching Business English. There isn't much discussion of that on this forum, and I'm wondering where to get more information on it.

Y

[yodetta]

Peter, are you teaching in China? What are your thoughts about the job market there coming up on the Bejing Olympics? Do you think there will be much more competition (as well as exploitation) among teachers in China, Korea and Japan?

just curious about the big picture,
Y

[sojourner]

Yodetta,

I came to China in late November 2002, and have worked in two universities. It is far better to work in unis or colleges than in private language schools. In the latter, one may earn more money but would probably be working longer hours - also, one may be required to work split-shifts. Also, as language schools are more directly exposed to the market place, one should expect to be occasionally told by the D.O.S. to make one's lessons "more interesting", whenever there are complaints from parents or adult students. Most language schools do provide accommodation for their FTs - although, I've heard that, sometimes, one may be expected to share a flat with others. At my uni there is no charge for utilities - although this isn't the case with all unis and colleges.

In my current job, in a remote corner of Zhejiang Province, I am paid 5 K per month for only 16 "teaching" hours per week, which is only 12 "normal " hours. My teaching schedule allows me to have 4 afternoons free, M-F; ideal, if one is also enrolled in an online Master's programme ! Each FT, here, is provided with his own rent-free, fully-furnished flat. I have never heard of any FT at a Chinese uni being required to share a flat with others. I also have my own "office" (actually a cubicle) on campus, with a PC, bookcase, large desk,etc.

As I mentioned earlier, with your background, you may well be offered a postion teaching Business English, International Business,etc. With a degree in Political Science ,you may also be teaching Western Culture. In both of my jobs, because of my academic background, I have taught mainly Western Culture and Business English - far more interesting than merely teaching Oral English !

I should point out that the academic standards of many (most?) unis in China are often below those pertaining to their counterparts in Nth America, Aust, the UK, and NZ. I can well imagine that a typical community college in the US would probably have a higher academic standard than that found in many Chinese unis. So, I doubt very much whether an appointments officer at a American uni would be very impressed with one's teaching experience at a a Chinese uni unless, of course, you were teaching at some top-level institution, such as the Uni of Beijing. I've also heard that even in HK, teaching experience in most mainland unis is seldom highly regarded .

So, if you are contemplating coming to China, consider working in the tertiary sector, rather than in a language school.You may also want to consider the state school sector as well. There are still plenty of jobs, if one is well-qualified, as you certainly are. Currently, it's possible to get a uni job, with only a BA; but I've heard, that in the near future, the authorities may be insisting upon Masters' degrees.

You mentioned something about the Beijing Olympics. I have not heard of any programmes to train Games personnel in correct English usage - but I'm sure that there would be some ! Re Beijing in general , I've heard reports that it's often quite difficult to get work there - maybe, because far too many people are applying for jobs there - why Beijing, I don't really know; Shanghai's a much nicer place !

You also asked about "exploitation" of FTs. Yes, it certainly does go on. But don't always take what you read on Dave's as gospel. Many FTs are persistent complainers ! Before accepting any job, read the contract very carefully - if something is vague, ask for the clause in question to be re-phrased. Never accept the conditions that are first presented to you - be prepared to negotiate; but be realistic ! Also, ask for the names and email addresses of both past and current teachers. I, myself, have never felt exploited by recruiters or university administrators.Sometimes I've found such people not always direct with you - but I accept that. If something ever goes wrong, try not to "loose your cool" - or do something that would result in the person that you are dealing with to loose face with his/her colleagues and superiors. On the whole, my time in China has been quite happy. I'm hoping to work in other parts of Asia, but am willing to stay on in China, if necessary.

I noticed that you have also enquired about Japan .Of course, the salaries are much higher than here - but the C.O.L. is much, much higher ! Also, I don't think that Japanese unis supply housing for their teachers. Postings to other forums suggest that it is quite difficult to get a uni job, even with an MA - they may well ask for evidence of having had articles published in refereed journals !

Apart from Japan and China, you may wish to consider Sth Korea. To get a uni job, you may not only need a Master's but also to provide evidence of some actual teaching experience. If you can't land a uni job, there is always the hagwan (private language school) sector. If you peruse the Korea Forums, there are often reports about exploitation of FTs. Hagwans do supply housing - but you may be expected to share with others. I, myself, am seriously considering Sth Korea after my current contract expires in July 2005.

A Master's degree in Organisational Management would, you'd imagine, in an era of rapid economic and technological globalisation, be highly regarded - especially in the dynamic E and SE Asia region.Yes, of course, there is the problem of Japan's low economic growth - but such a situation, one would expect, require businesses having to re-assess their priorities, form more strategic alliances with foreign-owned companies, etc, etc, - all, of course, requiring input by professional Organisational Development people ! However, as someone else has commented, you would need to be proficient in Japanese to work in that field in Japan. But apart from Japan, have you ever considered HK and Singapore ? Contact some global HRM firms; but there is the possibility that you may be expected to have already had several years experience working in that field.

If HK and Singapore appeals to you, but you unable to land a job as an O.D. professional, you could always try teaching. Who knows, after some time in either of those two places, you would soon network with people in the business world - and, hopefully, be given the opportunity to do some casual, short-term contractural work in your chosen field. After a while,this may even lead to bigger things !

So, if HK and Singapore appeals to you, what sort of teaching would be available for you ? There is always ESL teaching, but such work in those places may be a bit difficult to find and will probably not be very highly paid. However, you could also consider applying for jobs in polytechnics and business colleges, where you could teach either O.D. or Business Communication. However, to get a position in either of those two fields, it would help very much if you could supplement your proposed degree course with some other training.

In your message, you mentioned that the uni where you'll be studying at, does have an education faculty, but the focus is on primary education. I'm not very familar with the US tertiary education system, but are there any opportunities for cross-institutional enrolment ? For example, if there is another uni in your local area that happens to specialise in Applied Linguistics and Adult Education, it might be possible for you to do some courses in those disciplines, at that institution, and then have them cross-credited to your degree programme.

In your other thread, you asked about Business English. I'll be replying to that query later on - so, stay tuned !

Regards,

Peter

PS: If working in China appeals to you, send me a PM, and I'll provide the name and email address of my own recruiter, whom I have found to be quite efficient and conscientious.

[yodetta]

Peter, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply...very informative...gives me quite alot to think about, and sounds like very relevant advice. Unfortunately, much of the "info" I gather on this forum seems of doubtful reliability.

Yes, I would prefer to work in a university or college setting...preferably in a somewhat more metropolitan area. I would strongly prefer to have my own flat as well.

I will contact you via PM for some more info. Thank you again!

Yodett

[PAULH]