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Cshannon
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I hate to be the big bad wolf here, but YOU ARE IRRELEVANT. You will be forgotten the instant you board the plane home. |
Sorry, but that`s just total BS. Speak for yourself. What do you mean irrelevant? Is that some kind of existential thing? I don`t feel any less relevant that your average Joe. If that`s irrelevant, than so is 99% percent of the world in any country. I really don`t get your point. I have friends here, I teach people etc. therefore by definition I make a difference. I don`t need to be a celebrity to be relevant. Whether you think I am disposable or not, I feel appreciated by my students and friends. You don`t have to change the world, just be part of something. Believe me, I`m not stupid and if I felt irrelevant I wouldn`t stay for a second longer. Get a life.
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| French and English are not different races but different nationalities. Both are more or less caucasian or European |
More or less yes, but Korea and Japan are nations and I think more or less Asian in Asia - racially. Germans, French and British have killed each other ad nauseum, yet race wasn`t the issue.
Also, I know many Canadians who resent the idea of even being mistake as American. Hence the maple-leaf pins and flags on backpacks etc. Personally I couldn`t care less (but then I`m not that patriotic).
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| Someone told me the other day that over 60% of Americans do not own a passport, which means many do not have access to foreign cultures, and many have not travelled outside their own state, or the US |
Yes, but America is very multicultural. You have a mixture of cultures already in the country that you don`t have in Japan. The rednecks I was talking about probably have black people born in America, who obviously speak English and live right next door. They are racist because it`s only about skin color. Japan doesn`t have an inherent mixture like this, everyone except for the odd gaijin, is Japanese. That was my point.
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| Many Japanese do speak English and many do travel widely, read English newspapers. They are still Japanese and 'internatiionalised (doese that simply mean the ability to speak English and socialise with foreigners, or something else? How do you "internationalise" Japan? |
I don`t really know, but my guess would be having more international people live in Japan. In Canada we have Chinese, Europeans, East Indians, Caribbeans, Mexicans, native Canadians etc. Japan has Japanese. That`s why they don`t feel like gaijins when they travel around. They can`t emphasise as well with other cultures because they don`t have them in Japan. In America people grow up together, so I guess the racism must involve more deeply ingrained hatred. Just my guess.
Paul, I don`t feel I can speak so much about universities, as it`s out of my league and I just don`t know enough about it. I`ll definately take your word for it though, and it sounds like a pretty unfortunate situation. Issues like that, and politics are very complex and I think you are probably right about them. I just think people (regular eikaiwa teacher types like me) like to blab about racist Japan, when it`s not quite the case. I think blacks in America can complain about racism, but I don`t think it`s so easy for white English teachers in Japan. I don`t deny discrimination exists here, I just don`t feel it`s about race per se. You are right, I should`ve differentiated between nation, ethnicity and race. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Cshannon, we are a means for Japanese people to make money. You are employed so that your employer can make 20 to 50 times you salary off your image and labors. To most of your students you are a novelty or a means for them to develop a skill which will earn them more money. Your competence as a teacher is determined by how bubbly and amiable your personality is. There are good people in this country who will value the opportunity to get to know you. To them you are relevant, but on the whole none of us typing on this forum mean diddly. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Lister100 wrote: |
Paulh mentioned that he felt his time and experience in Japan makes him more of a threat. Since his arrival people have become less welcoming. I was wondering if this might not also coincide with a re-emergence of the desire for isolationism? Has that desire always been there? The school I'm working for is tiny and I'm the only teacher there so maybe I'm not as sheltered during our advertizing drives, but the reaction I'm seeing in the street isn't a very enthusiastic one. Averted eyes, cold stares and total indifference.
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Lister
As I mentioned I have been here since 1987, way before most people and my first job was in a small provincial city. People would stare at you in the street.
I have never been big on the rock star mentality and have not let being a foreigner here go to my head like many people. If you arent swelled up to begin with the bump at the end is much softer.
Im not too concerned if people are indifferent to me. What do you expect them to do, give you a hug? You can go home and be just as anonymous. I was in London last week and alone among millions of people. I didnt see anyone pay me any extra attention. I get this feeling here that foreigners crave attention and being noticed because of who they are and get upset when people dont take any notice of them or they are ignored. Who cares what strangers think of you when passing you in the street? Its a big world out there and I have better things to do with my time. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cshannon wrote: |
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| French and English are not different races but different nationalities. Both are more or less caucasian or European |
More or less yes, but Korea and Japan are nations and I think more or less Asian in Asia - racially. Germans, French and British have killed each other ad nauseum, yet race wasn`t the issue.
Also, I know many Canadians who resent the idea of even being mistake as American. Hence the maple-leaf pins and flags on backpacks etc. Personally I couldn`t care less (but then I`m not that patriotic).
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Asia is a geographic area. It is not a race. You have south East Asians, Phillipinos, Malaysians Chinese, Mongols who live in Asia but are different races. Japanese killed thousands of Chinese and "Asians". Race was an issue but it was also about domination and Japanese being culturally superior.
Germans killed Jews over race. Wars in Europe have been fought over land and religion. Americans are fighting in Iraq over oil and Americans access to it, though the excuse is democracy. Whats your point?
| Cshannon wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Someone told me the other day that over 60% of Americans do not own a passport, which means many do not have access to foreign cultures, and many have not travelled outside their own state, or the US |
Yes, but America is very multicultural. You have a mixture of cultures already in the country that you don`t have in Japan. The rednecks I was talking about probably have black people born in America, who obviously speak English and live right next door. They are racist because it`s only about skin color. Japan doesn`t have an inherent mixture like this, everyone except for the odd gaijin, is Japanese. That was my point.
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Americans are not multicultural (not all of them anyway) I met a lady who married and lived for three years in Minnesota and her husband just drank and hunted deer. All the women there sat round and gossiped all day. Some one asked where she was from and she said "Ireland". They said "Is that near Minneapolis?" Just becuase you have many races living togthere it doesnt mean they all get on together- you still have problems with races, quotas, affirmative action, hate killings etc.
Rednecks are not just racist but some are mysognist as well, discriminate against people with different religions. Religious bigots. Not everything has to do with race, necessarily. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Cshannon wrote: |
| [ I just think people (regular eikaiwa teacher types like me) like to blab about racist Japan, when it`s not quite the case. I think blacks in America can complain about racism, but I don`t think it`s so easy for white English teachers in Japan. I don`t deny discrimination exists here, I just don`t feel it`s about race per se. You are right, I should`ve differentiated between nation, ethnicity and race. |
If the following is not about Japan being a racist country I dont know what is
http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html
Landlords also regularly refuse tenants in apartments who are not Japanese even though they speak the language, some even have families. Thats racism, too.
You have a Gaijin Toroku Shomeisho with your fingerprint on it? Japanese dont have them. Thats about race as well. |
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Akula the shark
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 103
Location: NZ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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What is evident from a lot of postings is that racism in Japan is far more visible to those who have lived there the longest. Someone who only lives in Japan for a year, works, travels about and enjoys the limited time they have in Japan may well be quite oblivious to it all.
Many Japanese do prefer the fresh off the boat Gaijin who doesn't rock the boat and doesn't know what is going on. In Japan, the more a gaijin knows, the scarier he or she becomes. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I can only assume also that Shannon does not speak japanese, has never had people make personal insults and remarks about them and their spouses and families, in Japanese assuming the foreigner can not understand what the japanese are saying
I have heard of cases where a foreigner's Japanese spouse has heard her neigbors making insulting remarks about her and her family within earshot, or foreigners hear Japanese in the next booth talking about them in Japanese while dining in a restaurant. The foreigner actually got up and told them that they understood every word that was said about them.
If you dont speak and understand the language you wont know people are being nice to your face, but stabbing you in the back when your back is turned. |
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cafebleu
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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As somebody who lived in Japan for over 5 years I have to agree with Paul and disagree with most of C Shannon`s counter arguments. One point about `race` and `nations` for C Shannon -
The Japanese are NOT a race. They are predominantly Chinese/Mongolian/Korean descent with some Ainu and Polynesian.
That the Japanese Government, its Ministry of Education, countless official organisations and groups, and many Japanese persist in calling themselves `the Japanese race` and use that to justify their so called `uniqueness` and excuse for legalised discrimination againts all outsiders including the Chinese, Korean and Mongolian from whom they are descended tells me something about the pervasive mentality in that society.
Not since I had heard of the so called Aryanism of `the Germanic race` under the Nazis etc has a country`s people been so unashamed of using a mythical racial origin to justify institutionalised discrimination. And this is not the pre-World War 2 world we are living in. |
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