Job Discussion Forums

[nellychess]

Thanks for reading my post. I am looking for a career, and not just a short term experience. I have been researching for some time, and on my own, it seems like Taiwan is the best place, but I was hoping to get feedback from those with more experience.

About me:

I am a 33 year old male with a Bachelors Degree, and 8 years experience as an enthusiastic creative tennis instructor. I have worked in the USA's best tennis academies, clubs, and ciolleges. I also have experience as a teenagers tour leader. I could very well teach English for the rest of my life if things work out well. I am single, and I have a cat.

I am looking to begin in September, and will have about 4 thousand US dollars.

I have substantial debt, so a major factor would be which country I could make, and more importantly save the most money. I am a hustler, so if there are opportunities to do more work, I will do it. I also would like the opportunity to meet local and expat females, and eventually find someone.

I play tennis at a very high level, and hope to be somewhere that I can find competition, and I can afford to play. I have also thought it would be cool to do some tennis coaching, perhaps even at a school.

I am also a musician, and would like to find other musicians to play with.

I know that's alot of info, but hopefully someone can helpo me decide where to go.
The reason I have Taiwan as my choice now, is that I figured it pays about the same as Japan, but cheaper, however I may be wrong. I also figured Chinese would be a useful language to learn.

ANY HELP IS GREAT!!! THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO RESPOND TO THESE POSTINGS. I'VE LEARNED ALOT FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTINGS AS WELL. CHEERS TO ALL.

[PAULH]

Have a look at the following on getting jobs in Taiwan

http://scottsommers.blogs.com/taiwanweblog/getting_a_job_in_taiwan/index.html

[Deconstructor]

What is your BA in? Though it doesn't matter much. But you gotta have TEFL qualification and some practical experience. It's not impossible to find a job overseas while totally green, but it takes some heavy duty research and creative embellishment of your CV. Notice I did not say lie, but whatever experience you have with kids and teaching, even if it is tennis, should be accentuated.

BTW, do you know at all what it's like to teach EFL?

[ls650]

There was a similar thread to this a few months back, but the OP's only teaching experience was as a swimming instructor.

Teaching sports is nothing like teaching a language. I would recommend you take a 4-week TEFL course with a practicum; the exposure to a classroom environment will help you understand whether teaching English is something you really want to do.

[nellychess]

Thanks for the replies. I think I will take the couse before I go. Even though teaching sports is not teaching English, I feel that there will be many parallels.

Examples.

1. Grind of having one lesson come in after another
2. Teaching someone that does't want to be there.
3. Having people of different levels in one class.
4. Understanding progressions.
5. Patience.
6. Communication.
7 Instilling Confidence.
8. Maintaining control of the class.
9. Keeping it fun.
10. The feeling you get by helping people.

These are just the ones on top of my head. I find it hard to beleive that these skils, and things I like about teaching tennis have nothing to do with teaching English. I'm sure you never taught tennis before. Although it's obviously much different, I know that many of the skills needed, and things I enjoy will be there.

Thanks for your concern about that, but i know I want to do ths, I just need avice on where to go. can I save more in S. Korea than Taiwan?

Thanks again

[Deconstructor]

[Glenski]

[nellychess]

My BA is in Sociolgy, minor in speech communication.

Glenn- Your info on $ in Japan is a reason I've kind of ruled out Japan. It seems like living in NYC, where money gets sucked out of your pocket before you even know what's going on.

I'd like to have about 500 USD a month for debts if possible. As far as my social expenses go, I'd sacrafice partying if I could afford to play tennis in a nice club every day. I haven't come across anyone who knows about the tennis scene anywhere. I had a job offer in Japan a few years back to teach tennis to Expat kids, but there were many uncertainties. I'm wondering if I could teach a few lessons at a nice club in exchange for membership.

I am so excited to get going and experience.
I really like to have a nice apartment as well. What does a nice place cost in Taiwan/Korea/Japan?
Nice to me is not new, but rather a good location, and a good layout with lots of space for my cat. A balcony is something I like also. I would rather spend more on a place, and cut back in other areas.

Thanks folks!!!!!

[tedkarma]

I've worked in both Taiwan and Korea (twice) - the ability to save (net) more money is why I am back in Korea.

Taiwan is much more foreigner friendly but I saved about 1/3 less there than I could in Korea. I also liked the hot weather (I'm from Arizona).

Korea can be quite wearing after a while - but truly if you want to sock away some serious money - Korea is the place to start. I started here in 1992 and have since taught in Taiwan, Saudi, Thailand, and now back to Korea (to pay off mortgages on investment property in the States). I teach at a university in Korea seven months a year and go home to Thailand (my real "home" now - where my wife, motorcycle and cats are!) five months a year.

I went to Korea when I was 39 - so you have six years to catch up and pass me!

I'd have to advocate Korea - as a good place to get over your first major culture shock, to get your feet wet in this field, and to give you a middle ground of what it might be like to teach in a variety of countries.

BTW, I suspect that if you are quite good at teaching tennis - you may be able to parlay that into other teaching opportunities. Don't forget your old skills when you market yourself - they are what will give you an advantage. Some of the quasi �international� schools look for people who can teach a combination of things � PE and English � sounds good. Maybe some coaching . . . Keeps you from getting too bored in one thing.

Don't blow off your majors either - I teach a speech class here - and your soc major will help you get a better handle on cultural oddities that are common when you work overseas.

Good luck!

Yet another edit! When your finances are in a little better order - you might consider teaching somewhere like Thailand - where EFL wages are low - but if you live on Phuket or some other tourist destination - being the tennis pro at a major resort - would get you the time on good courts that you would like.

There is a world of opportunity out here.

[Glenski]

Despite what others wrote, I think you have to think about teaching a language quite differently from teaching sports. Look at your list of similarities again. My comments are not just for Japan, but for many Asian countries, by the way.

1. Grind of having one lesson come in after another
Have you had 8 lessons in a day? You might have that every day in some schools, with only a 5-10 minute break between them. What about doing this with your weekend being 2 NON-consecutive days? Or the fact that you may have to do this from noon to 9pm, do some paperwork before you leave, and arrive home well after 10pm EVERY day? THAT'S a grind.

2. Teaching someone that does't want to be there.
Quite a different situation when you have to provide pair work or elicit conversation from someone, instead of just a tennis player. Especially if that person's language ability is so poor you can't elicit.

3. Having people of different levels in one class.
Tennis players, ok. Language learners? VERY different situation!

4. Understanding progressions.
Not sure what you mean here. If you mean students who must accomplish something in order to advance to a higher level, then you might actually face situations where the school doesn't test them, but merely pushes them upward even if their abilties aren't suitable for that level. Just taking the year at one level is often enough for some schools because they want the student's money.

5. Patience.
Great for any teacher, but in a sport situation, you don't face thise things.
Students who won't answer questions.
Students who don't come for weeks, yet expect to learn by osmosis.
Students who monopolize the class with conversations that are so off-topic that they kill the atmosphere and cause other students to quit.
Students who simply don't understand what you are saying.

6. Communication.
Try this with students who don't even know what you are saying.

7 Instilling Confidence.
Nice if students are reasonably outgoing and know what comes out of your mouth. Not all are like that, especially in Asian countries. Shyness is the norm. People take up hobbies for years and still claim to be pretty bad at them (language, dancing, etc.).

8. Maintaining control of the class.
See my remark above about the class killer, and gauge that with keeping the company happy with influx of cash and maintaining a good image.

9. Keeping it fun.
This is a prime ingredient for many conversation schools, but I submit that keeping a class fun in tennis is a far cry from a language lesson. Imagine a class of 3 people, totally different backgrounds (young office worker, middle-aged housewife, retired man who can't even read the board or remember the last sentence you said), and who can't stand each other.

10. The feeling you get by helping people.
You may NEVER know how you have helped your conversation school students. Rarely are there exams or homework, and they are scheduled to come only once a week, but their private schedules may preclude them from doing so for weeks on end.

Yup, these are all pretty negative remarks, but I'm only trying to show you that side of things. It's not all as rosy as you may think.

As for actually teaching tennis, you can forget doing it at a high school, for example, unless you are a teacher there, and you will only be an assistant with menial duties unrelated to actually teaching the students the sport. For teaching privately or such, look at www.gaijinpot.com for some better replies, but I would guess that your main problem would be in explaining things in Japanese. Can you? Playing "in a nice club every day" is also going to be VERY expensive! Check gaijinpot.com for prices.

[Glenski]

[PAULH]

[nellychess]

I would never in a million years think that teaching tennis and English to foreigners are the same. However you couldn't be more clueless as to what the life of a tennis pro is like.

I hven't had a weekend day off in years, and 1 day off a week is about it. Try working 11 hours on a court some days, and others working 'til 11 at night with a 7:00 am lesson the next day. Obviously being able to understand the same language is the huge collosal difference, but it's funny that everything else you said was completely the opposite. Usually in a group tennis lesson, everyone wants to get something different out of it, and you have to please them all, some people show up late, leave early, don't show for weeks, stop you to talk in the middle of something you name it. Besides, a classroom is at least a controlled environment with chairs etc. Try taking 10 kids with racquets and balls and a court and see what everyone does. It's ridiculous.

I have taught people tennis who don't speak my language as well. It's not easy at all. I would for sure only be interested in teaching in English.

Obviously I don't know much about teaching English, but my goodness, you probably think teaching tennis is like in the movies. I don't get hit on by the ladies(well not too much), and you have to be good with people and extremely dynamic to be successful.

Thanks for the input on Japan. I'm thinking more and more like Taiwan is the place, but want to know more about S. Korea
Cheers, and I know you are just trying to give me a dose of reality.

[hamel]

nellychess,

i rarely post here these days, but i like your enthusiasm and i also like tennis.

koreans think of tennis as a rather upper class sport and it is usually impossible to use the courts--i have never played here, and i used to work at a university where there were many courts. i work at an international school and the pe/tennis teacher is like a sports machine.

koreans also enjoy table tennis as do i. i played with some of my teen students last week and they are very competitive players.

korea is somewhere between china and japan, but is quite similar to japan in many ways, though more relaxed. but korea can also be a very isolating (lonely)place for westerners. cats are becoming more popular as pets, but wild cats roam all over the place which is so sad for cat lovers like me.
i think you would be putting your cat under undue stress to bring it without the right housing already in place.

i tell people that korea can be a good place to save money and learn how to teach.
good luck. pm me for more info.
hamel

[nellychess]

Thanks Hamel. I think it would be depressing to see stray cats everywhere. The earlier responses about my Tennis experience amaze me. All I was pointing out was that I think I have many skills from teaching tennis, and things I like about it that would apply to teaching English. I am shocked that someone would say it's nothing like teaching English when they have no experience at all with tennis.

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend who called me from Los Angeles. He was raving about how many beautiful women were everywhere. I told him that New York had way more, just because there were so many people everywhere. We argued for a few minutes about it, and I discovered he had never even been to New York!!! I thought about that and was laughing out loud when Glenski(all due respect) made this massive list about things that I don't experience as a tennis pro, and I experieced all of them!! At a greater degree than he was trying to explain as well!!

Glenski, I do appreciate your help, and intentions, but that whole thing really got to me.

Cheers All.