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[ymmv]

I got this question from at least 10 students, one dean, and two Chinese teachers in the last two days. It's from the 2004 Syllabus for TEM-4 which the sophmore English majors are busily studying to ready themselves for this year's TEM-4 in about 3 weeks. What's your answer - and why?

(N.B., "Chinese tests are stupid" is not one of the answer choices. We all know that's the case. It's a given. So if that's your only answer, start your own topic. I'm trying to assemble some quick, practical feedback for my students.)

[Norman Bethune]

[Old Dog]

For me, the only acceptable answer would be "as".

I recall the chant, "like can never a conjunction", i.e. it should be restricted to prepositional use.

The following suggests that rule:

Strictly speaking, the word like is a preposition, not a conjunction. It can, therefore, be used to introduce a prepositional phrase ("My brother is tall like my father"), but it should not be used to introduce a clause ("My brother can't play the piano like as he did before the accident" or "It looks like as if basketball is quickly overtaking baseball as America's national sport."). To introduce a clause, it's a good idea to use as, as though, or as if, instead.

Like As I told you earlier, the lecture has been postponed.
It looks like as if it's going to snow this afternoon.
Johnson kept looking out the window like as though he had someone waiting for him.
In formal, academic text, it's a good idea to reserve the use of like for situations in which similarities are being pointed out:

This community college is like a two-year liberal arts college.
However, when you are listing things that have similarities, such as is probably more suitable:

The college has several highly regarded neighbors, like such as the Mark Twain House, St. Francis Hospital, the Connecticut Historical Society, and the UConn Law School. (http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm)

However, I note in various sources that the use of "like" as a conjunction is observed in colloquial use.

Nevertheless, in a Chinese examination, where prescriptive grammar is the rule, the "correct"/"most suitable" answer is not to be determined by a colloquial use.

Hence, I would reject "like" in favour of "as".

As for "what" and "that", I would either wash my mouth out or cut off my hand were I to be found using them. As for "context", the context appears to be a standard mathematical expression in which "as" is the received form. I cannot imagine in what context "what" and "that" might be considered to be correct in a formal grammatical situation. "What" can surely never masquerade as a conjunction and, at this early morning hour, I can't fit "that" into a role as a conjunction introducing an Adverbial Clause of Manner.

It is true, however, that many Chinese grammar exercises fall short on account of an absence of sufficient context and that a number of suggested answers could be possible depending on the context imagined. In my experience, at the expense of my face, the context thrown up by my mind is not often the curious one imagined by the examiner.

It is also true that it is 7.09 a.m. as I write this.

Can the OP tell us what the answer suggested by the key was - and why the Chinese teachers thought of this as a problem? I must ask our senior teachers today if they see a problem and if they have another Chinese view.

[ymmv]

[Old Dog]

Don't get too excited ymmv. The Chinese student is either seriously deluded or on medication. A conjunction is required here and "what" simply can't act as a conjunction. Maybe the student was taught by the teacher from "Not One Less".

As an afterthought, I've looked at my Concise Oxford (Chinese edition). It lists the functions of "what" as pron., det., & adv.

It will be interesting to hear the Chinese student on this one.

[Old Dog]

Wonders will never cease. Let me explain.

I just went to the teachers' room I trust most and posed the question. Back in unison came the answer, "What!"

I tried to look pityingly understanding in the face of this unanimity. I quoted the Concise Oxford. But to no avail.

They rained a series of authorities upon me. First came Mr Gu who produced "A New English-Chinese Dictionary" (1979). On p. 1605, he pointed to the example:

[ymmv]

Ah, Old Dog. Now you see my problem. First, apologize for what you said about my student ("seriously deluded or on medication").

Seriously, thanks for the cites to the Chinese sources. I'll pass them on this afternoon.

In rummaging through my various grammar references yesterday (Little, Brown Handbook, Warriner's Grammar, and others) I neglected to consult Senior English 2A. However, you may be on to something with the noun clause explanation. That's as close as I could get in Little, Brown but it didn't satisfy me. Nor my students. Nor the dean. We all want to believe AS is the right answer. (Another student even cited the New York Times as evidence that AS is correct.)

In the end, my advice, which they will no doubt follow is, use WHAT on a Chinese test or paper, and AS for every other situation.

[Old Dog]

Our best Grade 3 student just came to visit. I hit him with the example from the TEM 4. Quick as lightning came "what" as his reply.

I explained the Noun Clause/Adverbial Clause distinction.

"Hmmmmmmmmm", he said. "So it's one of those 'it depends on my luck' questions."

How true! Oh, and I apologize.

[Old Dog]

But, wait a moment! "12 is to 4" describes a process. "A nest is to a bird" does not seem to me to describe a process. It is the "process" element in the meaning that inclines me to the adverbial "as" rather than to the noun complement.

[ymmv]

As promised, here's the Chinese explanation in the "coaching papers" my student had.

In that typically useless Chinese style of explaining things, the explanation, roughly translated, is this:

"[chinese] In order to understand the answer [i.e. WHAT] we can look at an example from the Chinese-English dictionary which should suffice: [/chinese] [english] "What the dry, salted cod is to the Portugese, pasta is to the Italians. [/english] [/explanation]

There, that clears everything up. Now, everyone back to those visa issues.

[Old Dog]

Ah, yes! I remember now. I came across an exercise last year in which, maybe, all four answers were correct - certainly three of them. But the Chinese teachers insisted that there was only one correct answer. When I asked them to explain, they told me that if you translate the sentence into Chinese, then only one of the four Chinese equivalents of the four suggested English answers fits. And there you have it. You translate into Chinese, find your answer in Chinese, then apply that answer to the English equivalents. That's bad enough, I guess. But the tragedy was that this is exactly what the examiner expected/required them to do.

Can't think of the example off hand though I'm sure it will come back to in a disturbed dream.

[Zero Hero]

In my dialect, only the first option, 'what', is grammatical and idiomatic, i.e., native-like. It is also the answer given in such questions here in HK (British English).

[smalldog]

I voted for 'as', but after thinking about it I change my answer to 'what'.

I think most of us only chose 'as' because we're used to IQ tests with that sentence structure.

The phrase 'X as Y' means that the logic or process behind phrase X is the same as with phrase Y. But X and Y should make full sentences by themselves--however, you can't just say, "Four is to one."

'Four is to one what twelve is to three' is saying what four is... it is the multiple by four of one... which is what twelve is... the multiple by four of three.

[Old Dog]

For those interested, I think the following item from the 2000 National Examination English paper (Q. 21) is the one where alternative C is defined as being the most suitable answer of the four suggested on the grounds that, when the sentence and the alternatives are translated into Chinese, "if" is the only alternative that is acceptable in Chinese:

2000 � 21
The WTO cannot live up to its name �.. it does not include a country that is home to one fifth of mankind.
a. as long as b. while c. if
d. even though

NMET answer: C

[Old Dog]

Smalldog, "4 is to 1" may sound a little awkward in its eliptical form; however, in its full form, "4 is (related) to 1" presents no problem. In the example, "12 is (related) to 3 (in the same manner) as 4 is (related) to 1" surely contains no offence.

The question is an interesting one. I have no grammar reference books with me. I have only my Concise Oxford - but I also have the internet. I can see that part of tonight is going to be taken up with a hunt. Sadly, my reference points at home on these matters have taken themselves off on a grand tour.