Job Discussion Forums

matt41 · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 12

This is a query to all those experienced teachers currently within Russia. I have been planning a trip to Russia for some time after extensive travel in USA and East and West Europe and now feel drawn to a new challenge, in both culture, language and the vast land itself. Ive also specialised in Russian History through my course. One way or another I will be in Russia by the winter. I have researched much on the topic but havent actually visited. I am just finishing up a History degree in Edinburgh and will be free to plan by mid May. Teaching english has been touted as the only realsitic job you can get in Mosow or St Petersburg by many of the people I have spoken with. I have checked various Job sites and it seems other jobs are kicking about even if, like me, your Russian is basic.

What id like to know is:

1. Is is worth getting an expensive TEFL certificate? Teaching for me will only be a short-term fix that i intend to use to support me in Russia (Moscow or St Petersburg) while i improve my russian in preperation for my assualt on siberia, the North, crimea, caucacus, Volga, Ect
(please be know im not intending to behave like a parasite in Russia, Any teaching job I get will be taken very seriously and I realise it is not an easy option that will let u go out and get pissed four nights a week but entails responsibilites to paying students) I know i have much to learn about teaching techniques but surely I can learn more in four weeks in Russia than in a classroom in edinburgh for 900 quid!

2. With a 2.1 arts degree do I stand a serious chance of competing for decent non-teaching jobs in the major cities? I dont expect much in this area but if it is possible and you people know of any such stories please pass them on.

3. Is it firmly advisable to arrange job before you arrive? I get the impression many companies prey on new comers, harpooning them in internet deals and giving them the crumby accomodation, pay and a draconian contract... wouldnt it be better to arrive on 3 month business/tourist visa and scout about?

4. The final part is really to shed some light on the age old question St Petersburg or Moscow? I will of course visit both before my decision but what do you think? skip this one if it is too big a question..

Any help will be a huge help to me, I find trawling through the forums VERY demoralising, for a number of reasons but mainly due to the arrogance, ignorance or negativity of various posters, So i thought Id try this method...

Cheers, Matthew

malcoml · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 215 Location: Australia

Without sounding to negative I will try and answer some of your questions as I have done so much research on moving to Russia.

With a serious degree there is a chance you could get a reasonable job. By serious I mean Finance, Engineering or Science. You will most likely be working for a non Russian company but be based in Russia. I have had three realitives work there. One was in a bank (upper management, foreign relation) One was in an automobile manufacturer (making the place world competitive) and the last worked in the mining oil industry. Russia was fun for a while but each was more than happy to leave when the time came.

Do the CELTA if you dont know how to teach. Teaching is a skill and you will learn alot when completing this course. Even if it teaches you nothing about English but brings you out of a shell then it is more than worth the money.

Many companies prey on new comers but this is the case with every job. You are a first year with no experience, what do you expect, they already pay you more than the local Russian wage and give you accomadation.

I would go St Petersburg. Actually if I was teaching I would go an even smaller town as there is less chances of split shifts and less distance to travel between classes and to work.

Lastly what is a 2.1 Arts Degree and would you expect to get a serious job with an Arts Degree in your home country. A friend of mine did an art degree and ended up selling mens clothing.
I still remember being at a Uni rock concert and lead singer announced the mens toilet has ran out of paper and they need all the Arts students to please bring their degrees to the bar so they can restock the loo.

Cheers

expatella_girl · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:45 am Post subject:

St. Petersburg.

matt41 · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 12

Welly Welly Well then... thanks for the quick reply malcom. Your information is useful. To answer your query a 2.1 arts degree is a british term. In my case it mean a bachelours of arts in History, at around 60-69% average. Like a B. In the British university only higher mark is a 1.(70 % and over or an 'A') that only a small number get. As such this is a non-technical and non-vocational degree but in my home country is good enough to get your foot in the door in a wide range of jobs, i.e. administration, goverment jobs, journalism, teaching, office work, management, politics.... you get the idea, things that do not require specific degrees to apply for.

So these people you know with jobs, the big question for me is.... did they use the old boys network? What i mean is did they arrange it through family/business/social contacts before they arrived in Russia or did they win the jobs on personal merits in various interviews??

canucktechie · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 343 Location: Moscow

It seems to me you are looking for an "expat" job. I have met a number of such people in Moscow. These people all have highly specialized business or technical skills. To put it bluntly, there is no skill that an English-speaking arts grad has to offer in Russia except teaching English.

If you spoke fluent Russian, perhaps you might have a crack at translation, or the Moscow Times, or what have you. But frankly, you sound like a sterotypical English teacher to me.

bobs12 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 310 Location: Saint Petersburg

Canucktechie seconded, but slightly less venomously. What was that all about?

Only experienced professionals can get jobs as foreigners in Russian businesses. Think about it - why would they have a low-skilled, non-Russian that will bring communication problems, visa problems, etc. unless he's going to teach them English? They could hire two or three well-educated and experienced Russians in his place.

Translating is okay if your Russian is good enough, but can be a real nightmare as very few clients understand what translators need in order to do a good job. Expect to be given lots of short texts full of specific terms that have been taken out of context, or, worse, to be given big texts for big companies that have their own particular register of terms, but not to get an equivalence list to go with it.

Editing is similarly not the breeze it sounds. The three-hundred-and-thirtieth time you read 'you must to registrate the intentions...' you'll pass it over as fine. And beware of translation companies that run work through electronic translating programs and then give it to dim-witted native speakers to edit. You usually end up re-translating from scratch. One company tried to give me a translation from German to English that had suspiciously been done via Russian...

That said, many of these programs can do a good job of imitiating a bad human translator.

Best for translating and editing would be love-letters from fat, balding Westerners to their teenage Russian fiancees. But that would just make you sick!

Go to St. Petersburg, but don't be too optimistic about work.

matt41 · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 12

Thanks guys,
I expected that teaching English was the only realisitic option. The only problem is teaching is something of an anathema to me as I base my judgements on the state school i went to in scotland and imagine teaching that uninterested rabble and having those same slimy administrators.

Of course i would expect different attitudes from Russian students, especially if they are paying to learn.

I suppose my concern is that I will be run into the ground by a demanding slave driver of a DOS, shifted from classroom to classroom, on meagre wages with a bare apartment. And that any dissent from this programme and I will be cast off as an ungrateful parasite. And if I cant make a little pile of denghie for my trip to the rest of russia then the point is being lost. Dont get me wrong, Im not workshy, christ I work part-time as a Kitchen porter.... there's a thought, I could do that in Russia.... yeah right.

Do you reckon I could shop around on foot in St Petersburg to find the best option? I think i will get the CELTA to go with my degree and become very employable to the schools.

If Russia really takes me, then mabye I could get involved in some paper, or for a real pipe dream, BBC russia, at some level, would be top class.. of course id need to get my russian super.... ah the shallow dreams of youth..

One thing im curious about is money, How hard would it be to save 25,000 roubles? obviously id tighten my belt, drink cheap, eat cheap, not spend money on women... what do you think, I have no real idea about teacher starting wage versus living costs in the cities. You may say id be better amassing ALL my capital here in scotland, but i want the time to soak up Russian language and culture in one place, that is a truely different experience to back packing. Furthermore I need time to get my language skills up to the point where I can surivive solo trips to the Russian hinterland

Anyway hope ive not rambled too much

matt41 · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 12

Oh and Bob, That job about translating for the vile old men who prey on the desperate and weak... sounds GRAND! But methinks Id better wait until I make my long awaited pact with the Devil, or get desperate and weak myself.

bobs12 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 310 Location: Saint Petersburg

Jings crivvens michty me, you ramble more than I do!

Spot on about the schools.

Saving money is unrealistic. I've been on reasonably good money for over a year and a half, and I've only just saved up enough to be able to think about going anywhere else.

Wages vs. living costs - not good. You can scrape by without too much trouble, but scraping by is not an option - money you save will be spent on your visa runs. The money you spend on a CELTA... that will take forever to save up again.

What part of Scotland are you from? PM me

canucktechie · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 343 Location: Moscow

canucktechie · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 343 Location: Moscow

Oh one more thing - the Russian adult students are well motivated and I enjoy them a lot. Adults (or their employers) are not going to waste their money.

Young learners are very much a mixed bag, teenagers can run the range from great to total duds, and kids are, well, kids.

malcoml · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 215 Location: Australia

|Matt

To answer your question none of the family members went to Russian and applied directly for a job. Each of the jobs was for a foreign company that had assets in Russia .I believe the mining was BHP. the banker was an exchange program (foreign relations) and the automobile manufacturer worked for either Holden or Ford.

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

Taking a CELTA or another Mickey Mouse Cert is probably not an economic choice - recovering the investment will take too long.

Jobs are advertised all the time by BKC and others.

Working with an established 'school' will have the advantages of providing visas and travel and accomodation so your living costs are minimised.

Forget Moscow if you want to save; see the real Russia and go East or South East.

My personal favourites are the cities along the Volga

maruss · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus

Moscow is just a city that happens to be in Russia,but in many ways not typical of a real Russian city, for many reasons, especially wages, costs, lifestyle etc.He is absolutely right that to experience the country as it really is you need to get away from it.Despite the glitzy new buildings, luxury shops and restaurants in the centre, you can still find plenty of grime, poverty and people living in what are really high-rise slums in many areas, while the elite few spend more in an evening than many others earn in a month!Not a nice atmosphere so see the history and sights there then get out of it to the real Russia!

zaneth · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:03 am Post subject:

I wouldn't plan on saving money in Russia. And it doesn't sound like you really need a certificate. Get together as much money as you can before you leave, don't waste it on a certificate, then come to Russia and do volunteer tutoring or go around visiting schools, just for the contacts and the opportunity to talk to people.

If your whole reason for teaching here is to save money to continue travels within the country, skip on the teaching, bring money from home. If you can't start quite as soon, then just have a little patience.

I would think you could reasonably plan on stretching your money by doing a little teaching, as long as you don't represent yourself as more than you are.

You'll have more freedom, flexibility, and you might have the opportunity to do some good.

Definitely don't spend all your time in Moscow, but in a lot of ways it isn't half bad. I fell in love with St. Petersburg when I was there, but I've been spending more time in Moscow lately and enjoying it. That's probably because I don't have to be there all the time.

You might decide you dig teaching and Russia. Then you can get more serious about things. Teach because you want to teach, not because you are in a hurry to get out of your country.