Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Students Evaluate Teacher
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
T.C.53



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Planet Earth

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Students Evaluate Teacher Reply with quote

Most Honorable List Members:

How can 1st and 2nd year University Students, 20 and 21 years old, pass an evaluation on a teacher holding a Bachelors or Masters Degree with considerably more life, work, and academic experiance?

What is all this Blow ha ha all about? Our jobs are in the hands of kids?

I must be missing something. Any help greatly appreciated.

Best regards and Wishes
Top Cat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spiderman Too



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Caught in my own web

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does one need to be a qualified chef to evaluate whether a restaurant meal tastes good?

Do students need any qualifications to evaluate whether a particular teacher's lessons are; helping them to learn the taught subject, structured, well-prepared, interesting and generally helpful?

Of course, students evaluating your command & knowledge of English would be inappropriate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Voice Of Reason



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by The Voice Of Reason on Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tofuman



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm evaluated by students 17-19 years old.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ivytony



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Dave's Cafe, where else?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The evaluation of teachers by students is also very common in the universities in the US. Ain't they (undergraduate) 18--22? You never done that before when in college?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Voldermort



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can completely understand university students evaluating a foreign teacher. Infact I would encourage them to do this and ask for the feedback. Students of this age know exactly what they want to gain from your class and know how they like to be taught.

However are strongly dissagree with any younger students performing any form of evaluation. I teach in a Senior High School and my students are often encouraged to do such a thing. With students this age they have no interest in what you are teaching them, they simply want to have fun, sleep, play games and watch the clown.

Worse than this, I have had a teacher walk into one of my classes in a primary school (grade 3), hand out evaluation forms then walk back out again without so much as a 'hello'. Can this really be justified?

More and more contracts are now stating that an evaluation of your classes will be performed on a monthly basis. So far I have only seen one contract that actually states the FAO will conduct the evaluation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voldermort wrote:
I can completely understand university students evaluating a foreign teacher. Infact I would encourage them to do this and ask for the feedback. Students of this age know exactly what they want to gain from your class and know how they like to be taught.

More and more contracts are now stating that an evaluation of your classes will be performed on a monthly basis. So far I have only seen one contract that actually states the FAO will conduct the evaluation.


You must be teaching the country's creme de la creme elite students! I hardly see students that can evaluate their own needs, least of all in English. Too much exposure to Chinese upbringing with its narrow focus on data-ingestion and no experience in using what has been learnt and in solving problems.
Besides, students judge your charisma rather than your competence, and they compare your perceived skills to skills they have come to admire in their Chinese teachers; their Chinese teachers "know" everything (even if it is wrong), whereas you don't know CHinese...

I am not at all in favour of being judged by students even though my reviews apparently are overwhelmingly positive.

Students have too much power and your job does depend on your pandering to them; if it was counterweighed by your power to attribute marks as you feel they deserve them, then it would be acceptable.
As it is, however, students nare lulled into the illusion that their money matters to you more than their intellectual prowess or interest in the subject.
This student privilege is a reminder of the harrowing Cult Revolution that put the social pyramid upside down, with teachers finding themselves in the pit. Today, students have not only power, they also have money to burn, and demands to make. They have been known to go to court to get grades improved, the house rules banning cohabitation changed and teachers dismissed. What next?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The evaluation of teachers by students is also very common in the universities in the US. Ain't they (undergraduate) 18--22? You never done that before when in college?


In the college I attended a few years back, the evaluations didn't determine whether or not a teacher was fired. It was just anonymous feedback from students that professors could take (with a grain of salt) or leave. It was for the benefit of the teachers so they could reevaluate themselves and perhaps try to improve their lessons to better suit their students' needs.

Most high schools and grade schools in America (from what I know) don't have students evaluate the teachers. Their lead teachers, principals, vice-principals, etc. take care of this (as it should be). I don't mind my students evaluating me - - it would be nice, however, if I actually saw the results of the evaluation so I could (perhaps) structure my lessons better. It's a little late this year, but I probably should have had my students fill in my own evaluation form, it probably would have been an eye opener. Maybe next time. It would also be nice if the leaders and administrators of my school actually seemed to give a dam n by stopping by my classroom once in a while for an observation . . . . as opposed to solely relying on what the kids have to say.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bendan



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind being evaluated by my students, but I'd prefer it if employers used various methods to assess teachers. When I teach a class of disinterested guys I'll generally get a lower evaluation than when I teach a class of motivated girls.

College administrators take all results at face value in my experience, so a low score means you're a poor teacher and a high score means you're a good one. I benefitted from this lack of analytical ability as much as I've suffered from it, but it still irritates me. Another irritation is that the administrators at my college can't understand why I might want more details of the evaluation other than a final score, so that I could know in which areas the students thought I was strong or weak.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shenyanggerry



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 619
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my profs during my TESL course told us that they actually use student feedback when deciding things like granting tenure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ironclay



Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Voice Of Reason wrote:
I recently asked some (university) students what they thought a good foreign teacher should do, the total responses were / the survey says:

"Always smile" Very Happy
"Tell jokes" Laughing
and (no joke) "Sing" Surprised

Forget teaching and put on that sequin shirt / dress that you have been hiding in your wardrobe, look pretty / handsome (oh, make sure you are white), learn the lyrics to "Yesterday once more" / "Hotel California" and sing your bleeding heart out (if you could dance too that would be just lovely), humorously degrade Japan / humorously compare Chinese food favorably to �Western� food (e.g. "The reason why Westerners don't say "delicious" as often as Chinese students of English is that we don't have 'delicious' food in the west", and love it / get yourself a permanent grin (the plastic surgery down the road can help you with it). If you can do all that and more* you could be the best FT / FE (E for Entertainer) in China.
*so as to take my crown / jester�s hat Wink


completely down with ya man....
that's the truth around here. FT are entertainers plain and simple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Babala



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I used to teach at a college, all of the foreign teachers were evaluated by students (and only the FT'S, not the CT). We were given the results. They only printed the bad comments, none of the positive ones, however they did show the overall results (how many excellent, good, average, below average you were given). The only bad comment I received from a student was that he felt class time would be better spent watching DVD's instead of the english I insisted on teaching them. I asked the director if he really felt this was a valid complaint and if so I could fix it by spending the rest of the year, playing DVD's Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Talkdoc



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C.53 wrote:
How can 1st and 2nd year University Students, 20 and 21 years old, pass an evaluation on a teacher holding a Bachelors or Masters Degree with considerably more life, work, and academic experiance?


Teacher evaluation questionnaires, completed by university students, are essentially "consumer satisfaction" surveys. What the relationship is between consumer satisfaction and teaching effectiveness has been acrimoniously debated in the literature for years. Some argue the process is little more than a popularity contest between faculty members within a department and others argue the results are highly correlated with teaching effectiveness. Some of it has to do with the manner in which the items are worded. All American universities do use the cumulative results of the student's teaching evaluations (over the past five to seven years) as one of three components in determining tenure and promotion (and I assume the same is true for all Western universities). The other two components are scholarly work and community service. Once an academician is tenured at the rank of full professor, the survey results are of no consequence.

In the states, anyway, there is typically a great deal of variability between (and variance within) each faculty member's teaching evaluations: not so in China. The Chinese university students believe it is their responsibility to give their teachers, professors (and, ultimately, themselves*) "face" by responding to the survey in a manner that produces a "regression to the mean." That is, "excellent" and "very good" teachers are typically rated as "very good." "Good," "average" and "below average" teachers are simply rated as "Good." Thus, in China, the real range is limited, in practice, to a numerical value of 1, not 4 (and the scores only discriminate at the decimal level): which is why at Hainan University, at least, the university has established a separate administrative department for evaluating teachers and professors at the peer level. Every semester, a senior faculty member from this department sits in and observes the teacher for one full period. This peer evaluation is then combined with the students' grossly constricted results for a total score.

At the private school I had worked at in Shenyang, there was far more variability between scores for teachers of adult classes, but that seemed more related to guanxi than to actual performance, in a couple of cases (e.g., two or three teachers had a 'custom' of taking out the entire class for a 'party,' the second to last class).

Doc

*One of my students recently explained to me the manner in which she and her peers complete these teaching evaluations. During her explanation, she mentioned that this "regression to the mean" response set was intended to give not only the professors but the students face as well! She explained it in the following way (and, subsequently, other students have confirmed it): If a professor is either "too excellent" or "too poor" it could suggest, both ways, that the students are undeserving.

This manner of evaluating others, at the university level, is also extended to students when the issue of face is particularly predominant. Last week, at a university-wide English contest, for which I was one of the judges, I was advised that the minimal score would be "60" and the maximum "95," i.e., no one could receive a perfect score and no one could "fail."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: ..... Reply with quote

Quote:
The evaluation of teachers by students is also very common in the universities in the US. Ain't they (undergraduate) 18--22? You never done that before when in college?

apples and oranges. in north america you might fill in a sheet giving the strengths and weaknesses of any professor (and the course itself), but retention of their job doesnt hinge solely on the results of what the students put on these course reports. you're foolish if you believe otherwise. in china, renewal of your contract seems to rest on whether or not the students like you.... nothing more nothing less.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bendan



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: ..... Reply with quote

7969 wrote:
in china, renewal of your contract seems to rest on whether or not the students like you.... nothing more nothing less.


Yes, I think that's the situation in most places in China. I would add, however, that if you have worked at a place for a while they will generally take into consideration previous evaluations.

In my experience, all you have to do to get an "acceptable" evaluation is to be (and be seen to be) kind and patient. I've observed classes of FTs who couldn't spell and clearly hadn't prepared, yet they got adequate evaluations from students. Another FT was fired because of student pressure, largely due to the fact that she absolutely would not not tolerate any BS in the class.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China