Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

Over in the off-topic forum, there is a thread about a teacher striking a child on the hand and the trouble she is now in. So I have to wonder, what are some of your classroom management skills that you use here in China? How effective are they? What are some things you'd LIKE to do to those trouble-makers (short of smacking them) but you can't due to rules set down by your school's administration? We may all benefit from wisdom here and probably share a lot of tricks of the trade:

I am not allowed to send kids out of the room (but I sometimes do when they are sleeping - - they can sleep in their own classroom), so it's either deal with the problems or give up. I show movies consistently now in 5 of 9 classes I have because most of the students just wouldn't shut up and do their work. Now the rules are: no talking, watch movie or do homework or read or, yes, even sleep. I see these 5 classes once a week and movie showing has been approved by my director. The other 4 classes I see twice a week and we do real lessons and the kids (I hope) learn real English. A much less stressful semester than last term.

When my classes (where I actually DO teach lessons) seem to be getting a bit out of control, I just stop talking, look at my watch, look at them and, sure enough, the talking subsides, at least for awhile. Really, the good studious, well-behaved students are in these 4 classes, so I don't have too much problem (the occasional mobile phone infraction is about it), but surely I could have tried some of your ideas to get the "lesser" students into studying English instead of learning how to say "sh it" and "f*ck" from watching movies.

[no_exit]

I've been watching all of these discipline threads with interest. This semester I started teaching at a new high school, and I have one class that is just horrible. They talk, they throw things, they make rude comments about everything, they refuse to participate. Controlling them has been a nightmare, but finally, last week, I sort of made a breakthrough.

What has worked for me is playing off of their sense of comeraderie and loyalty to one another. Last Tuesday I lost my cool, and wrongly blamed a student for hiding the chalk. Every time I came into that class, there was no chalk to be seen. I figured they were hiding it, but didn't say anything and used the few scraps I could find lying around. Well, after four weeks of this (I see them once a week), a girl produces the entire chalk box. I got really angry, not just at her, but at the whole class, and lectured them about how horrible they were. The girl who gave me the chalk started to cry.

After having a go at them for awhile, I told them to forget it and went on with the lesson. At the end of class, the girl was still upset, and many other students came up to me, quite upset, and told me I had wrongly blamed her. You see, it seems that this girl had been assigned to hide the chalk because this one particular class is so bad and out of control that they simply cannot be trusted with chalk! Apparently, if the chalk was simply left on the teacher's desk (like it is for all of my other classes), the students would steal it during breaktime and throw it around during class. So this student had been assigned to hide it. She was simply doing her job, and I wrongly accused her.

I felt bad, but really, these kids are all totally awful, and they know it too. They knew that I had reached my limit with them, and seemed to feel a bit guilty about the whole thing. So the next class, I turned it around on them. I apologized to the crying girl, but I told the entire class that, while I was wrong, they all were wrong. They are the only class that cannot be trusted with chalk, of all things. If they weren't all such awful students in the first place, such an incident would never have taken place. So I made the girl who cried come to the front of the class. I apologized, and then I made the rest of the class stand up and apologize to her. I told them that they were just as responsible for making her cry as I was.

This actually worked wonders, at least for the rest of the period. They raised their hands, they tried to participate, and the ones that didn't at least kept quiet. Chinese students, as awful as they can be to teachers, are very supportive of each other. It seems that if anything will work, guilt and shame do the trick. Let them know that by disrupting the class, they are hurting their friends. Don't be afraid to tell them exactly how they make you feel. While you can't physically hurt the kids, you can say just about anything to them. Words can sometimes be quite effective.

Incidentally, I talked to my boss, their head Chinese teacher, about the whole thing. She was actually quite happy that I had made a student in that class cry, even though it was a good student. She said this proved that I could intimidate and control them, which is something even their Chinese teachers have been having trouble with. So while I felt like crap for wrongly accusing a good student, I earned some respect in the eyes of the Chinese teachers, and it now feels very good to know that I have their support when it came to doing what it takes to discipline that class.

[ekirving]

Whilst I'm not suggesting that this is a viable classroom management technique, an FT I know revealed recently--after liberal consumption of bijiu--an interesting disciplinary procedure that he had recently tried.

He pushed one of his primary school students out of a window!

Apparently the kid had been, by turns, disruptive and apathetic for much of the class. As a general teaching aid the teacher uses a small rubber ball with his primary school students in place of pointing--when he tosses the ball to a student they have to answer a question. In this case the student wasn't paying attention and the ball ricocheted off his head and out of the ground floor window. When the class gathered at the window to see where the ball had gone the teacher lifted the kid by his ankles and pushed him out the window onto his bum--which apparently took some effort as the kid clung onto the windowsill.

The result of this little incident, however, was that all of the students were on their best behaviour for the remainder of the lesson.

At the time this story seemed highly amusing and I favorably considered its application in one of my Senior 2 classes (on the 4th floor)

[Brickerage]

Sorry to no_exit... dont have time to finish the post (those damn classes!)
Now these may hold no bearing whatsoever to some classes, but....

Whatever happened to the dunce cap? Maybe a trouble student could be placed in an embarrassing situation, stupid clothing or what not. I would occassionally make students do jumping jacks in the front of the class.

Maybe pour a bit of (boiling) water on the heads of sleepers, or make two trouble students wear blindfolds or balace eggs on their heads (Ok , furiously typing out crap ideas with a time restraint, SORRY! )

OK OK!! If a trouble "hard-ass" is givin you lip, just make the whole class stare directly at them until they calm down. This might cool their heels a bit.
Sorry for the lame suggestions, the students are filing in as I write

[cimarch]

Don't have much time as well but just thought I'd share one tidbit.

One tactic I use a lot in large classes because it doesn't need to interrupt the flow of the lesson. Simply walk down the classroom and remove the culprit's chair. Carry it back to the front of the room. If the embarrassment of having to stand for the rest of the class doesn't get them the wear on their legs does.

[latefordinner]

Cimarch, did I get this from you, or did we arrive at this independently? In any case, I have had mixed but mostly positive results with this. "IF you don't know how to sit, you don't need a chair" Of course many students then proceed to rest their elbows on the desk, but then they become targets for "Tai lan le!" (You're too lazy!) when appropriate.
One thing I did get fromyou is reading notes aloud in class. Now my ability to read Chinese is extremely limited, but the kids don't know that. So when I intercept a note being passed, the class is treated to my puzzled expression as I spell out "Qing... ai... de... Wo... ai... ni.. Jin... tian... ni... mang ... ma..."
It's a lot of fun, and usually accomplishes the narrow aim of temporarily embarrassing the culprits out of their immediate behaviour, but I don't know how effect it is in the long run. I suspect it's more entertainment that education.

[geekyguy]

If they are sleeping, reading or doing homework I let them go. I recently pointed out two sleeping students and asked the class if they thought it was good? "No!" Do you think they are hurting anyone else? "No!" Do you think they are hurting themselves? "Yes!"

When they become disruptive I simply stop what I am doing. Sometimes I will try to engage and chat with the disruptor/class clown and comment that he, (isn't it always?), is so clever that his English should be very good. This has worked with some and having that class clown on your side can go a long way towards easy classroom management.

Most of my classes have upwards of 90 students and I should add that most are very well behaved if a bit reserved.

I think a lot of it has to do with your overall demeanor and presentation to the class. If you go into the room determined that today they will learn x subject/phrase/pronunciation you might be working against yourself. I try to approach my classes with some ideas of things I can discuss if they completely clam up but I otherwise try to engage them and draw them out. Sometimes we discuss what is being discussed in their book but I am not required to.

They get embarrassed enough when trying to speak a second language in front of so many other students. Embarrassment is equal to losing face and I think that when you force embarrassment on them or put them in an embarassing situation as a disincentive that you will become the bad guy and they will further resist. I try to create a comfortable place where they are encouraged for what they do right. I try to walk the room and engage them individually and give them encouragement when possible. It sounds all warm and fuzzy but it either works well for most or I just have great students. Or both.

[Babala]

Methods of classroom management are going to vary depending on age group. When I first came to China, I taught junior 1 & 2 at a private school. Most of my classes behaved fine, I kept them engaged by incorporating games into all our lessons. They knew that if they behaved, we would end the class with a game however if they were disruptive, no game. This worked great with every class but one. They put the students into classes by grades, so that my one class consisted of all the kids with the lowest test scores and worst discipline, even their Chinese teachers hated teaching them. I tried everything to get them to behave, nothing seemed to work. I finally went to the department head and told him the situation. He understood and assigned a male Chinese teacher into the classroom to sit at the back and keep order. The school I taught at had no problem with hitting a child so if one of students got out of line, the teacher would come up behind them and they would get a rap on the head. I am not endorsing violence, but you FT's who have taught/teach at a private school know the score. After a couple of weeks of this, I asked the teacher not to come to the next class. I talked to the students and asked if they liked having that teacher in the class. They of course said no. I said that if they behaved, I would not bring him in. Everything worked fine after that.

When I taught college, I told them that I was going to treat them as adults. At the beginning of the semester, I carefully explained my rules and the consequences of breaking them. I said that if I caught them sleeping or texting on their mobiles, I would ask them to leave and they may not return without a letter from the head of their department. The letter must make it clear that they explained to the director what they did wrong. The key to my method was that I enforced it. There was no second chances, I relented for no one. I told them that as adults, they have must accept the consequences of their actions. I only had to send about 3 to the director, after that word got around that I was serious and I never had a problem again. I think the best way to manage a class is to throughly lesson-plan and keep your lessons interesting.

[kev7161]

[cimarch]

LFD, I'm not sure, definitely remember discussing it in one of our drunken rambling converstions. I think the note passing one was the one we got independantly, I can only manage "Wo...ai...ni? What does that mean again?"

Positive reinforcement works great with good kids to get more effort out of them and it can make some of the bad ones perk up but a lot of the worst don't care. If I remember correctly it had mixed results with me when I was a kid, often the work I'd have to put in wasn't worth the reward (or possible reward), it was easier to be lazy. The only way to get around this (other than spending a fortune to make the rewards coveted and freely available, so they don't all go to the good kids) is to reward or punish the whole class. This makes their peers force them to work.

For example, during a spelling test, if I hear ANY talking I add an extra word to the list. One word for each infraction. When they see me raising my fingers as each one speaks they soon get the message and shut them up. Likewise if they all do well we play a game. If a game has been promised but someone acts up during class and we don't finish the lesson then no game. And I make sure that evryone knows WHY we don't have time to play.

With adult classes I always explain the rules in the first class, explaining why we have each rule and that they're for their benefit. If someone doesn't wish to abide by them then they are free to leave the class. If people break the rules and disrupt the class then I will wait until they leave the room. I won't force them nor do anything other than make a polite request that they do so but I will not continue until either they do so or a sincere apology is forthcoming. As I always say, it is a class for adults, children are not welcome.

[Roger]

A couple of observations:
- We should learn from Chinese teachers in how to handle disruptive students; they have similar problems though on a far lower scale. Why? Here are some things that have come to my notice over the years:

- Students know the proper names of their Chinese teachers and are required to address them appropriately. How many of you insist that your students address you as "Mr" or "Ms" so-and-so? NOt many, I bet! SOmetimes I go to the relevant superiors to inform them of my policy because I don't want them to communicate with their students using a different form of address to me! You may think this is peanuts, but I say: it is more than symbolic in this class-conscious society!
- When I enter a primary school class I demand that students get up and greet me - as is practice under CHinese teachers. There simply must not be an occasion that allows your students to construe that you are an inferior teacher!

- I take attendance! And I do this methodically - not passing the attendance list around but calling up names.
While some teachers feel this is not necessasry at college or university level it is a conditio sine qua non at our institution although it is not rigorously enforced! It has been found that an increasing number of students merely enrol for classes in order to get extra credits without actually participating in classroom proceedings! Some absent themselves on private business, others to earn a salary... clearly discipline is going down the drain in Chinese schools! My students have been told how to obtain permission to be absent from any class; they get a red chop on a note they write themselves, which then will be checked into by a department that has overall control (it knows, for example, when students are required to do special laboratory or field work during other teachers' classes). Interestingly, two students filed a written excuse recently, saying they were going "to take special classes". Pressed on what these "special classes" were all about, they informed me sheepishly they were taking DRIVING LESSONS. I asked the head of the foreign languages department whether this was a valid excuse; of course it wasn't! The students had not obtained a red chop but had entered "the teacher's telephone number" - which was a cellphone!

- Of course, I give my students a list of my requirements, but I won't photocopy it. Instead I dictate the whole set of rules - 3 to 5 or 6, depending on subject. THis ensures that they actually THINK about the rules and their meanings! Handing out photocopies is like handing out excuses not to cooperate - because "I can't understand these rules in English..."

- I make my students work during the lessons; I mix them up to form small teams to teach them collaborative working. These teams must comprise girls and boys so that cliques don't form. Normally I ask 5 or 6 girls to select an appropriate number of boys and girls proportionate to the total of the class. THus many trouble-makers get neutralised!

- I oftenj have them do some assignment during the lesson and give them time off if they show me their writing early, without mistakes.

- To enforce their participation I would often select a whisperer/talker out of the blue and tell him/her to repeat what I had said; if they fail to remember they must stand up.

- Extremely misbehaved students will be marked down, warned that their parents would be notified, or sent to the library or some place where they attract public attention for being outside of their classroom. This is a habit that worked pretty well in middle schools.