Job Discussion Forums

[Beausie]

I encourage my students to have a debate session every few lessons. One student has put forward the topic 'Some people say that China is a developing country, others say China is already very strong'. The class will discuss this week after next. I like to have background data to introduce if the debate gets bogged down, or degenerates into argument.

My problem is that I can't find a website which gives the parameters for defining 'developing country'. I don't want to drag it into areas such as good manners, hygiene, awareness of others (or any of the other things which are mentioned on various postings) but genuine criteria which are used and respected internationally. My intention would then be to pick some of these and ask my students whether China qualifies when measured against such criteria.

I have no political or personal agenda here. The most I hope to achieve is that the students think about it from a wider perspective than they might previously have managed.

BTW, I have done some google searching, but am not finding anything that helps.

Thanks

[Austrian]

Somehow I'd be hesitant to openly categorize China as a developing country even if this might be the case and although it might fit many of such criteria which are probably established by the UN or the US. Some students might object to a FT deciding over this on his/her homeland, some might feed this info back to some of their Chinese teachers.

I would - but this is only my personal opinion on this and I will fully understand if you or others don't share it - have them come up with their own criteria for categorization. The first, second and third world countries categories might work as a rough model and no Chinese will object if countries like Switzerland, Mexico and some remote African country are used as respective examples. I'd on purpose not use the US, England or Australia, simply for not putting the countries where most FTs (yes, of course this also includes Canada and NZ!) come from and put them in the shiny light. Let the students do that by themselves throughout the task. Switzerland, Norway, Sweden might be ideal and non-conflictive countries for representing the 1st world.

Then I'll let them place all countries they know and which come to their mind on a kind of timeline from least developed to most developed and subsequently have them find arguments why a certain country is where they put it. This should be an objective task with no political twist to it. They had to act like analysts with no emotional involvement - like a study they had to present.

It might be interesting to see the results.

And I would not question any of their decision, I'd only act as the MC.

[Beausie]

Thanks for that, Austrian, it's very useful. It underlines some of the concerns I have. This is why I want 'non-emotional', 'scientific' criteria to use, so that it doesn't come down to comparisons of one country with another, but stays with the broader aspects of what defines 'developed'.

One of the problems I have is the level of knowledge of other countries among the students. I suspect that, if left to define their own criteria, they will come up with very shallow or cosmetic ones, which other classmates will argue with.

I like the idea of them identifying the countries, placement and timeline. Still concerned at what they might use as criteria. So would still like some suggestions to introduce to get them thinking.

Sorry if this is a bit scattered, thinking and writing at the same time. Not a good idea late on a Saturday night.

In some ways I wish I could just avoid it, but don't feel that I can ban a topic they've chosen themselves. What would that make me?

[hesterprynne]

You have never been offered the standard "China is a developing county excuse for any and all wrongs?
Well, anyway, what you are looking for is easily qualifiable. "Developing country. Low- and middle-income countries in which most people have a lower standard of living with access to fewer goods and services than do most people in high-income countries. There are currently about 125 developing countries with populations over 1 million; in 1998, their total population was more than 5.0 billion."
That's from http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/english/modules/glossary.html
I would read some country reports, such as cia factbook, and look at maternal mortality, infant mortality, number of people living below the poverty level, access to health care, access to safe water, access to sanitation, gross national product per capita, malnutrition. CIA factbook also rates economies in the economy overview section of each country report.
Life expectancy is not necessarily proportionally related to a country's economic status as you would expect.
Also from the worldbank site, "Fertility rate (total). The average number of children a woman will have during her lifetime. The total fertility rate in developing countries is between three and four; in industrial countries it is less than two."
And this about population momentum- "For example, the absolute numbers of people in developing countries will continue to increase over the next several decades even as the rates of population growth will decline."
And this "Transition. Refers to the demographic change that is occurring in developing countries as they move to lower rates of fertility and mortality. Many factors contribute to transition including: improved health services, greater access to education and improved social and economic conditions. Several developing countries in Asia are now in the later stages of transition, while many countries in Sub-Saharan Africa are in the early stages of transition. Demographic transition is complete when fertility has reached replacement level, which is the case in most industrial countries."
btw I used www.dogpile.com to search!

[struelle]

This is a great idea, but I wonder how to make this as non-political as possible. Whenever I hear people talk about China's economic progress (either local or foreigner observers), there are invariably some political connotations involved.

There is no doubt that China has enormous potential, and if conditions are favorable, it could become the next economic superpower in our lifetime. The potential is certainly there, and this was the case in ancient times when China was among the world's most advanced civilizations.

If my impression is correct, Chinese may feel some shame in their country's current economic position, given the vast potential to be a powerful economy and the past history where that was the case. They may be developing for a time, only to regain the position they held in the past.

That's my take on it, and I would imagine that people feel strongly about this.

At the same time, a debate such as this would really inspire critical thinking because you're taking the focus away emotional reasoning and to more objective criteria for what constitutes a developing country.

How many times do we sit down at the dinner table, discuss politics and religion, and notice how people get so worked up over their views? It happens, as so many emotions are invested in the arguments. Critical thinking is a great skill to defuse some of this and focus more on being objective.

Steve

[Roger]

Why not have your students decide which part of China is "developed", and which parts are less developed?
I too think they are unable to come up with valid criteria for other countries since they would have to refer to information sources outside of their own control and access.
They might have a vague notion of which Asian countries are ahead of China - you can mention Japan (not a good suggestion at this juncture...) and Singapore.
At the other end of the scale you would have them place Mongolia, North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Bhutan, Nepal.

In the middle you might have India, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.

Perhaps you can list some countries on the board and have them decide based on what they think they know.

You must double-check the countries' names and ensure they get the picture right; many Chinese transliterations of foreign place-names yield totally unexpected results, and CHinese tend to confuse lots of places! Maybe a map and some visuals would make your task a lot easier!

[ChinaMovieMagic]

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