Job Discussion Forums

[foreignDevil]

Hello all Dave-sters in the house.

I have been teaching in China for several years but I plan on returning to the United States next year to pursue my masters in education w/concentration in ESL.

One school I am looking at is SIT (School for International Training) in Vermont. I know some people who have graduated from there and I know this area of the country. It has a good reputation, but is very expensive. Any thoughts on this school? One program they offer is a masters in ed./esl concentration done on-site over two summers... the school year in between is spent working at a school. Any thoughts on this type of program?

And aside from SIT, I would be interested in hearing about any other schools and programs with which people have had experience. I am primarily interested in U.S. schools, because of the financial aid factor.

Thanks!

[ls650]

I know one person who was enrolled there, and quit the program about halfway through. This person found SIT's program very inflexible and so disliked the course greatly. (Mind you, this person is also very inflexible, so I suspect there was a clashing of minds...)

[PAULH]

[Tamara]

I strongly considered SIT. I have family in VT and I love the town of Brattleboro--such a great little town. However, the cost was prohibitive and my family lived two hours away, so I'd still be stuck paying for a place to stay, whether on campus or off. I visited the campus and one class, and I really enjoyed the cooperative learning atmosphere in the class I visited. Students told me they focus on reflective practices.

Instead, however, I chose the MA TESOL at Greensboro College, Greensboro, NC. The tuition costs are half that of SIT, and it's only a 45 minute drive from my house. The program was initially created for Visiting Foreign Internationals (or something like that) and so it's also set up so the bulk of the work can be completed in two summer intensives. The summer sessions at GC are 6 weeks each, rather than 8 weeks at SIT. Another factor for me was the teaching practicum required. Since I'm currently working as the computer lab manager for our program, I have to take a leave of absence of sorts to teach in the classroom. For SIT, I'd have to have 12 hours of teaching a week, but at GC, they only require 6 hours. (I already have 3 years experience in public schools and 4 years teaching adult ESL at the community college.)

http://www.gborocollege.edu/academics_new/graduate_program.php#TESOL

Please feel free to contact me if you'd like more information. I'm very happy with the program I've chosen and I'm enjoying the class I'm currently taking.

[JZer]

If you are worried about the cost then you should check out the ESL Program at Purdue. It is possible that they will award you at teaching assistantship for $1100 a month and your tuition will be waived. I would contact them to see how many TA ships are available.

http://www.sla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/esl/ESL/ma.htm

[JZer]

If you want more information on attending graduate school then read the following post about the Monterey Institute and what people had to say about it and the cost of attending this institute.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=22058

[denise]

Sigh. The OP didn't even mention MIIS yet is already being warned about it by someone who has never been... Here we go again.

On the topic of MIIS, it is an excellent school. It is sort of the west coast equivalent of SIT. Yes, that does mean it is expensive, but there are scholarships and aid available, and there are plenty of teaching jobs on campus and in the community for extra cash.

d

[AsiaTraveller]

denise,

JZer has admirably demonstrated that he is completely obsessed with finding the lowest-cost education.

Why else would JZer disparage other people's decisions (or inclinations) to spend more for their education than he is spending, as he did so eloquently in the discussion about the Monterey Institute?

Look how he criticized you for even thinking about spending your money at MIIS, which is a stellar school that actually specializes in intercultural education throughout every department and every course offering.

Why else would he focus EXCLUSIVELY on recommending schools that offer a TA position to defray the cost of tuition?

For the record, an M.A. program that offers TAs to students to cover all (or most) of their tuition is not automatically a wonderful program. Cheap? Perhaps. Quality? Not at all guaranteed.

Take a look, for example, at the Department of Foreign Languages at the University of Delaware, where JZer himself is a TA. Does the graduate program require a course in language pedagogy? Yes: an extremely general one (Practical Issues in Teaching Foreign Languages). Does it offer a course or seminar in the teaching of German? No. Does it offer regular (i.e., weekly) required workshops for foreign language TAs to address issues in teaching and pedagogy? Apparently not. Does it address pedagogical support specifically for German language teaching? Apparently only minimally. There are only these vague and general online recommendations:

http://www.udel.edu/fllt/faculty/lisat/germta.html
http://www.udel.edu/leipzig/reading.htm
http://www.udel.edu/fllt/faculty/lisat/ta.html

What it requires of TAs is a three-day orientation before the semester begins (for all TAs, not specifically for foreign language TAs), the required course �Practical Issues in Teaching Foreign Languages� (FLLT 623), a couple of classroom observations, plus an online handbook of common tips for teaching foreign languages. There are also monthly �rap sessions� where TAs from all departments can get together for discussions. A stellar program for foreign language TAs? Absolutely not. A merely average program? Probably.

Compare this program to those at other schools where considerably more attention is paid to the entire TA teaching experience.

And does the University of Delaware Department of Foreign Languages offer a choice of more than one (1) 800-level graduate seminar in German language/literature in a given semester? Doesn't seem like it in Spring 2005.

If JZer is happy to get his tuition decreased or waived at such a school, then it is entirely his choice. But he shouldn't recommend such a program to others who might want to actually receive explicit TRAINING in how to be an instructor during a teaching assistantship.

And he shouldn't recommend a program that offers a mere one (1) graduate seminar in German in a semester. What kind of range is that? There are also two (2) 600-level German courses that graduate students may take for credit in the Spring 2005 semester, but undergraduates may also enroll in those courses. How does that range compare to other schools? Graduate studies are opportunities to examine a broad range of topics and materials so that one can make an informed choice about potential research or professional areas. They are also opportunities to be exposed to all of a department's faculty members. With only one (1) graduate seminar in a term, the breadth is severely limited.

The type of program at the University of Delaware (or Purdue, or any other program-du-jour that JZer finds on the Internet) might be fine for him. But that doesn't automatically imply that it would be fine for everyone else � regardless of cost.

JZer seems to advocate for the very �cheapest� M.A. education possible. And he appears to be getting it � in more ways than one.

And what of JZer�s motivation?

[JZer]

AsiaTraveller,

[JZer]

Denise wrote,

[JZer]

Since, AsiaTraveller wants to make this a personal vendetta. Here are two reasons that you cannot take her seriously.

1.
She stated,

[AsiaTraveller]

JZer,

You are constantly recommending that potential M.A. students (in ESL or anything else) strongly consider going to a school that offers teaching assistantships to help defray, or even completely erase, the cost of tuition.

You imply that this is the most important criterion. Why else would you continually repeat your advice?

It works for you. It doesn't work for other people who consider factors OTHER THAN COST when making such important decisions. You are making it "personal" by critiquing others' decisions about where and how to spend their money. Why can't I do the same?

Since you never seem to understand this point, I shan't make it again.

And you do all your research over the Internet, so that's what I did with your own progr am.

[AsiaTraveller]

And please do tell us, JZer, which course in the esteemed graduate program in foreign languages at Delaware is going to help you land "an exotic women" [sic] in Brazil.

[Justin Trullinger]

Hey guys! Play nice!

I for one appreciate the suggestions on TA positions and low cost schools- Many of us are not in a position to consider grad school without these helpful, low cost options. (I've been earning in Latin America for a while)

But obviously, if I were in a different situation, I'd have different criteria. (If I had any money, I would certainly consider spending some on a Masters.)

So please, we'd love to hear from people on all sides of the spectrum. But ease off on the vendetta. JZER is in a school that suits him. I'm glad to hear about it. Many others are in different places. Again, we want to know. Thanks for all the info.

Regards,
Justin

PS- Is that "an exotic woman" or "some exotic women?" In either case, I think you're going to like Brasil...

[JZer]