Job Discussion Forums

[Susie]

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=21407

So I was invited to attend an interview for teaching at a learning centre in Kowloon. The boss set the time and date and I was happy to go along with the arrangement.

Suddenly, I decided to tell the boss that I would require $200 travelling and time expenses to attend the interview. I explained that if I were hired and worked at the school for XX hours in the first month, then, I would repay the $200 on the first pay day.

The boss remembered that she had a partner who would have to be asked about the interview arrangement and on second thoughts she, herself, alone, could not confirm our interview on that date and at that time as first readily suggested. She would have to get back to me later....

Well, that eliminates one potential time-waster and saves me $200.

Or did I lose out on something bigger and better?

[Zero Hero]

If you are serious as regards what you have done then I think you are absolutely idiotic. What special skills do you have that make you think anyone will pay you simply to attend an interview? If anyone could get paid just for attracting and showing up for interviews, do you not think there would be people who did just that, going from interview to interview to earn their daily bread? If I had demanded interview expenses from the university here in HK that I work at they too would have declined. Does that mean they are "potential timewasters"? Even the full professors here who earn anywhere around $100,000 a month do not receive interview expenses � and some come from Korea and Japan for their interviews. If there was any employer who was prepared to financially compensate potential employees for interview related expenses, it would most certainly not be a small, private learning centre!

I think you quite obviously overvalue your worth, and underestimate the number of people that are able and willing to work here.

[Ladybug]

I don't think any employer will compensate you for travel time to an interview. If yu can't make it to the interview because it's too far away, maybe they should meet you halfway and be happy with a phone interview, or at least give you enough time to sort out a visa before you arrive here.

Before teaching here and in Korea, I tried to get jobs that happened to be out of state. That meant rental car fees, airline tickets, lodging charges, and I never asked them to reimburse me because I never expected them to. It's your responsibility anyways to find a way to work every morning anyhow. If the job's too far away to be an inconvenience to you, maybe you should either move here first then look for work, or look for something better closer to home.

[tassierose]

If it's too far to travel for the interview or the timing is inconvenient, then either re-schedule or don't apply for the position in the first place. I think you were really cheeky to even suggest you wanted re-imbursement from them for travel expenses....you want the job, you spend the money it takes you to get to that interview and guarantee yourself that position. It's that simple. They can pick and choose whoever they want. They certainly won't want you now since you've proved you won't even make the smallest effort to go to the interview. Due to your unreasonable expectations, you may have missed out on a really good job.

[hanuman]

ZH - "I think you are absolutely idiotic..."

What's with all the Vitriol ZH?
Is it necessary to be so condescending...
Go take a page out of Ladybug's book.

[Susie]

I did ask for interview expenses of $200 for travel costs and time. $200 is a small amount for any profit-making business to pay. Besides, the money would have been reimbursed if I were to have been hired and to have worked 10 hours in the first month. This is not much to ask.

I didn't ask for interview expenses because I am deluded into thinking that I have any special skills. I asked for interview expenses in order to save myself the time and expense of engaging in time-wasting activity with someone who may just want to practise his/her English for an hour or so. The potential employer is free to refuse my demand, I am free to make such a demand.

In principle too, I think that potential employees all over the world everywhere should ask for and expect potential employers to pay them interview expenses.

As for people going from interview to interview to make their daily bread, good luck to them if they can get away with it. However, I do think that employers would select applicants whom they are really interested in, rather than just calling people in for interviews willey nilley, (if they do), when the employers know, from all the applicants' information before them, that someone is over-qualified or under-qualified or the employers have some other motive for calling them in for an interview. Therefore, to eliminate career-interviewees, the responsibility would fall to the employer to do more preparation and background research on applicants before calling them for interviews, for example, telephone calls could be made, letters could be written, emails could be sent.

Yes, I understand that the current status quo is such that interviewees don't ask for interview expenses, don't expect potential employers to pay them, and thus end up paying out of their own pockets.

I understand that the rules of the interview game are made by employers not by employees - multi-dollar profit-earning enterprises and the small private entrepreneur alike - and I think that it would be a healthier job market place if interviewees took responsibility and played a part in setting the rules! Further, employers with a high turnover of staff because of internal company system/culture problems would probably change for the better (in British speak, pull their fingers out and get their acts together) if they had to pay interview costs.

I am also given to understanding that when revolutions come, it is usually the workers in the universities who are most resistent to change and the most likely to be purged first - believing that the world is flat and refusing to accept that it is round may have nothing to do with it!!

Please don't misunderstand me, I do not overvalue my worth, and I do not underestimate the numbers of people who are able and willing to work in HK or any other capitalist place in the world. I believe that if the workers were to unite in demanding and expecting interview expenses, then, employers would have to pay them and would be less willing to waste people's time.

[hanuman]

Now you really are being idiotic susie

[Ladybug]

Ummm....if they call you for an interview, you're being really naive to think that you are the only one they are interested in. Of course they will call others and interview them. And it just may be that someone else who was called turns out to be better qualified or a better fit with the school. Just because they call you, doesn't necessarily mean you have the job, and to say these people are using you to practice their English skills is plain silly.

To make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs, right? Same with job interviewing. You have to sacrifice your time and sometimes your money for something you want.

[prplfairy]

Susuie,

Get real. How is an employer supposed to compensate every single person they interview for a job? I can see it now� �Well, you got the job but we spent your first few months salary on paying everyone to come for interviews so we�ll call you in three months.�

Using this logic then you would be in favor of an employee who applies for a job, gets it and then turns it down being held responsible for the cost to the company. The same would apply for someone who schedules an interview with a company and doesn�t show up. It cuts both ways.

And why is it the interviewers fault that you don�t live closer to the interview site?

This is the real world and if you want a real job you�re going to have to bust your arse. That means putting up your own money to print your resume for postage to send them out and for transportation to jobs that do not pan out. It's part of looking for a job. Grow up and deal with it.

I am all for workers rights and I think that business gets away with bloody murder at times, but screwball ideas like this one do not attempt to actually improve the situation, but rather exasperate it.

If you want to get serious about labour relations then look into the ineffectiveness of the labour tribunal and the lack of a minimum wage. Look into abuse of domestic workers and the plight of mainland construction worker injuries. As I said to begin: get real.

[Joachim]

Susie,

I hear what you're saying, but perhaps this is the wrong place to be saying it. You can't change the system your self, and I think the second you mention "interview expenses" to a potential employer in Hong Kong the alarm bells will start to ring.

It sems to be to be common sense that you don't really have much bargaining power until you have at least been offered the job!

Good luck with your search.

[dandan]

Susie.

Close your eyes.

Imagine how happy and successful you could be if you used all the energy you currently devote to negativity and used it to do something positive.

Dan Dan the Guru Man

[ChrisRose]

I think asking for interview expenses if you have approached the employer first is rather unusual.

If, they head hunted you, then perhaps they might offer it.


I suggest via the telephone you check the following:

When does the work start?
How many hours?
Dates of classes? For part-time positions.
Rates of remuneration?
MPF and any other benefits.
Materials, etc

If they say you will be told at the interview then politely explain that it is a long way / amount of time for the interview and just ask for outline details, to save both parties time.

Mostly, many agencies are just after a database of teachers, whose information they can forward to potential clients. If little to no information is available regarding the position then delve deeper into the company via a web search.

If it is a learning center, or school supply agency and they have no details of starting or course dates and times, you can rest assured they just want to ad you to their database. Of course this may not be a bad thing, as long as you don�t use too much time or money to attend the interview and you will be happy with the courses / materials they provide etc.

[shmeagain]

I agree with Chris about the general questions you could ask them.

Sometimes employers are just fishing and sometimes teachers do the same just to see if there's anything better out there.

Have a look at this website I found - maybe it's common knowledge to the rest of you but I thought it's quite a find

http://www.emb.gov.hk/FileManager/EN/Content_231/offences_uts_e.pdf


It lists all the schools who have been nabbed for something somewhere. If the potential employer is on it - give them a miss or file them under "dodgy".

There's another link as well - I'll see if I can dig it up and post it under a different subject.

[aabbcc]

I have been working in Hong kong for a year and been to over 20 interviews (not in teaching field). I can tell you none of the employers in hong kong would pay you money for going to their interviews. If anyone request for such a thing, they would just laugh their heads off at your back and would think you're ridiculous. In hong kong, the employers think they're the kings, they think it is YOUR pleasure to work for us and it is YOUR pleasure to get a chance to come for an interview. If you don't /can't come to see us, it is YOUR lost.

[Susie]

I still hold that it would be an excellent idea for potential employers to pay interviewees travel and time costs as I believe this would go some way to decreasing the time-wasting and free English practice that I believe some HK potential "employers" engage in. And you know, my idea is a reality, as the EMB does pay up to HK$1,000 interview expenses in certain circumstances.

Take for example the advertisement outlined below, (Emp. Ref. No: NES0012006 JobsDB Ref.: JDB090358321, The e-Centre, www.ecentre.hk).

The interview was conducted by three, approx. 25 year old male, "teachers". I did feel alienated by the generation gap and the feeling that they had set the rules of the game and held the cards, but that is my weakness.

When I asked them for some details on the teaching position applied for and the school, (given that they had all my information in my resume, my photograph, my written opinion of my own personality, my written answers to three questions on how I would deal with hypothetical discipline problems, and that I had travelled nearly two hours to get to their place), one Danny Kan told me that I would have to play by their rules some more, namely that I would have to respond to some scenarios that they would give me and answers some more questions first. Then I could ask questions at the end of the interview.

When the end came, he told me with a smile, that because I arrived late there was no time for me to ask questions nor for them to give details about the school, but that I could email them the questions. When I came out at 7.40 p.m., there were two young 20ish females waiting in the waiting area for their "interviews" (I wonder if they all went out for a drink afterwards with the girls buying)!

The "game" got more interesting, I did email some questions and the emailed reply was something to the effect that they'll notify me in 7 days if my interview was successful, but if I don't hear anything then assume no success. I don't have any evidence that there was work on offer at all, all I know is that these three guys got to practise their "interviewing" skills and got to "play boss" at my expense at 7.00 p.m. in the evening.

So if anyone has any real evidence in the form of experience of working for these chaps as a result of their recent advertisements, I would be interested to hear about it.

Two other tutorial centres advertised summer work, but then when I got to the interviews they said that they didn't have students at that time but that they were expecting some for the summer holidays and that depending on the numbers, then, they'd contact me. If they had to pay interview expenses, they probably wouldn't waste my time so blatantly.