Job Discussion Forums

[sigmoid]

China is the largest and fastest growing economy in the world. But almost all the TEFL job offers at least the ones that I see or receive include the most ridiculous and insulting salaries if they bother mentioning salary at all.

Is there some reason for this?

[mlomker]

Not sure what you're comparing the salaries to. If you're looking to send a pile of money back to the USA or EU then you're right. If you're looking to live there comfortably and have no debts back home then it's no problem.

You can make $4-5k RMB/month with no experience and in many parts of the country you can live on less than a third of that (because they provide housing) and do what you want with the rest. The university positions often are offering much less but you only work 12-16 hours per week. It seems like quite a deal to me--there aren't many jobs in the US where you could survive as well by only working part-time.

[No Moss]

Check out the thread entitled "What do people mean by decent pay" for some opinions on whether 4000 per month is enough.

[Zero Hero]

Is China the "largest" economy in the world?

[Brian Caulfield]

I think the main reason is that being a teacher in China is not as respected as being a teacher in other countries . Salaries in general are low in China .

[shuize]

[sigmoid]

Thanks for the responses guys. I think China would an interesting place to live and teach, but I need to make a living. We all do, don't we? Anyway, I'd like to discuss this more. Maybe I'm missing something.

[struelle]

As far as economic indicators of development go, it's more useful to look at GDP per capita. And in a country as large and diverse as China, you also need to look at various regions which have huge variations. Metro areas are in the neighorhood of US $3-5000, while I know that Shanghai is approaching $6000 now.

On average, China is sitting around $1000 per capita. If this figure is correct, it matches a quote I heard elsewhere that it's 1/30th of the US per capita.

You can do a rough calculation for how long it will take China to reach its goal of a 'well off society'. The leaders want to see $3000 per capita GDP by 2020. That will take between 13-15 years, if you assume average growth continues between 8-9%, so it's a reasonable goal.

But the leaders don't talk aboutt how urban-rural inequalities continue to go way out of control. China's average is $1000 because of two unequal 'weights' that 'pull' in completely opposite directions.

(a) The 700+ million peasants and migrant workers weigh the average significantly down.
(b) The 300 million or so urban dwellers, especially the top 100 million 'middle class' and people of 'New China' weigh the average significantly up.

If you exclude either one of these weights, you are looking at extremes of $5000 to < $100, but more like $3000 to $500

And the same principle of inequality applies to economic growth averages as well. Urban areas are growing at 10-12% while the countryside hardly grows at all. Somehow the average evens out to be 8%, but this is significantly weighted by the urban growth engines, i.e. Shanghai and Shenzhen.

Basic principles of compounding show that the urban areas will continue to outpace the rural, because a lot more of something is growing at a faster rate. What does this mean? A rising tide lifts all boats, but the yachts rise one hell of a lot faster than the dingies.

So by 2020, you could easily see New China on par with the industrialized West, but the countryside would lag far, far, far, behind, thus averaging out to that $3000 figure the government considers a 'well off society'.

Maybe the leaders want to redistribute wealth away from the cities in true socialist fashion, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Granted most of this is macro-economics, and it doesn't really explain the part about salaries, but just though I'd throw this out.

Steve

[No Moss]

[anthyp]

Frankly, if you want to make any kind of money, you might want to stay the hell out of China.

We come here for the easy style of living, the light workload, the comfortable lifestyle our salary affords us. Most of us seem to be "making a living" just fine -- it all depends on what that means to you. And I understand that you can have all that in Thailand maybe and make a bit more dough ... but what do you want from us? There doesn't have to be any correlation between economy size and EFL teaching salaries (look at what they offer in Europe!). Why do you expect salaries to be a certain amount here?

That being said, if you bust your ass here, you can make a lot more than that 4000 RMB. There are plenty of people making more than that via privates, for example ... or who are just shrewd enough to know where to look. Double and even treble that amount, which isn't bad money for EFL! (Although frankly I have always wondered why people would come to China to work 35 hours a week -- you can do that at home and not have to put up with all the damn Chinese!)

[Roger]

[No Moss]

[kev7161]

What I don't understand is, why are many, many salaries so similar? According to my resume (and it's truthful, but it could easily NOT be), I have a teaching background with a degree in education. In other words, I know my way around a classroom and how to create solid lesson plans (and put them into action). However, I am NOT TEFL certified. Before coming here I wouldn't even think I could teach my way out of a wet paper bag when it came to "English as a foreign language". Granted, I now have a couple years experience under my belt, so things change.

I would fully expect someone who is TEFL certified and does have a degree/background in education to earn more money than I if he/she worked at my school. I don't know the exact salaries of everyone here, but I'm pretty sure that everyone this year started at the same salary level. I only make more because I received a second-year raise. I'm also not going to compare my performance with the others because I've never observed their classes, but can you honestly tell me that, at the beginning of this school year, some of our FTs started on less-than-solid ground (due to lack of experience or credentials)?

Now, after saying all that, I really don't mind the same salary scenario, but I know this wouldn't happen in the states. The school where I worked probably would not hire a PhD to teach 5th graders or someone with a degree in, say, Engineering to teach a Spanish class. Granted, the PhD would probably be teaching in a university and the Engineer would probably be out designing bridges or something - - unless times were hard in their area. But what if I went to a US university with my little Bachelor's of Education degree and applied to be a professor? I'd probably be laughed off-campus!

[lagerlout2006]

China may be a "large" and "fast growing" economy but it's still a dirt poor developing country. The billion people makes it a "large" economy.

Are you also "insulted" by salaries in Africa? Have you ever been to China.?

I'll stop with the quotation marks now...... I doubt sALaries are any higher in Thailand or Vietnam all things considered.

In fact salary is no higher in Japan so what is your point?

[mlomker]