Job Discussion Forums

[thestaypail]

I was wondering if there are any popular generalizations that people make about people who live in the Tokyo area compared to people who live in the Osaka area. For example, I live in California and many generalize people in the LA area as more materialistic, better looking, more stuck up, etc., and people in the bay area as more laid back, liberal, outdoorsy, etc.

Not to say these generalizations are necessarily true or fair, but it does tend to influence how people perceive those areas. Just curious. thanks.

[PAULH]

[SEndrigo]

Whilst it is true that many Japanese comedians are from the Osaka area, and that Osaka people are very proud of their dialect, I actually don't find Tokyo and Osaka people to be so different from each other. Sure, there are differences, but it doesnt mean that Tokyo people are always unfriendly and Osaka people are always friendly.

Some of the funniest people I've met here have not been from Osaka or Kansai.

And, many people from Osaka who come to Tokyo and have lived here a while slowly but surely become more like Tokyo-ites

But here are some more differences between the two (I dont mean to generalise, but these are just some things I've noticed):

1. Many Kansai people prefer udon, Tokyo people prefer soba.
2. Many Kansai people don't eat natto, whilst Tokyo people love it.
3. Many Tokyo people find Kansai people to be boorish and/or rude. Kansai people find Tokyo people to be stuffy, snobbish, and/or arrogant.
4. In Kansai, people actually talk to each other on the trains.

There are more differences of course, but these are just some things I've noticed.

I find that I get along better with Kansai people....but I enjoy life in Tokyo since there are better job opportunities, more things to do, a better nightlife, and you can meet people from all over Japan.

[freddie's friend daniel]

A former colleague of mine (Tokyo born-and-bred) was recently able to tell by looking at a photo of three girls he'd never seen before that they were from Osaka, just by the way they were dressed. Now this is a 40-year old guy, who I assume hasn't ever lifted a copy of Non-no in his life, but he said it was obvious. Something to do with bright colours not being commonly chosen in Kanto.
I'd always heard the thing about natto, too, but it's just not true (anymore). There might have been a tendency for it to be a more Kanto-ish delicacy in the past but I once asked a class of mine (25 kids from all over Japan) and there was absolutely no geographical pattern to who ate natto and who didn't. I guess it's just something you either love or loath.

[Mark]

Most of my experience is in Tokyo, but I spent a week in Kansai and noticed some huge differences.

I agree with most of what's been said, but I'd say that in Tokyo people won't ignore you if you speak Japanese. I've had people ask me questions in Japanese, as well as respond to me in Japanese. Some people here just get so flustered when they have to speak to a foreigner that they don't know what to do.

I know people here who tell me that before they went abroad to study English, they'd cross the street whenever they saw a foreigner because they were terrified that the person would try to speak to them in English.

People are fairly reserved here, but not just to foreigners, it's to everybody. It's often difficult for Japanese to make new friends, and everybody's so busy that they can't see each other very often. People here don't seem to need or desire a lot of social contact. One of the main reasons that people here dislike Kansai folks is that they think that people in Kansai talk too much.

As for Kansai people moving here and becoming more like Tokyo people, that's true. But it's true for everyone. I've noticed it happening to myself as well.

Tokyo is a huge beast of a megalopolis covering itself and the neighbouring prefectures, and to a certain extent all of Kanto and even beyond out to Shizuoka. I think it takes a while to find your place and build up a crowd. There's very little sense of neighbourhood here.

It's difficult to make friends here unless you have some common interest or shared experience. People don't typically become friends with people they meet in a social situation. You have to have shared a class, or been in a club, or been co-workers or something. People tend to have group friendships, and each group is kept separate from the other.

You are unlikely to be invited to join a group that you don't have a connection to, so you have to start building up new groups.

It may be different with people who've lived overseas and speak English well, because they're familiar with other ways of building a friendship.

As for Kansai, it's quite different. I had way more spontaneous conversations in one week in Kansai, than I've had in one year in Tokyo. People spoke to me in Japanese and sometimes in English, but it was very casual.

Also, Kansai has several important cities. The Greater Tokyo Area is all centred on central Tokyo. Most people see no reason to go anywhere else unless they live there. In Kansai, each city or major area has things to do and a somewhat different character. When choosing a place to live in Tokyo, the only considerations are how convenient the train station is and how many department stores are nearby.

In Tokyo, people live all over the place, so it's difficult to do anything spontaneously as lots of people will have a 1 hour commute to the meeting place.

If you live in a major city in Kansai, you'll probably have friends who live, work and party in that city and therefore don't have to travel so far.

I think you can tell from this post that I vastly preferred the people in Osaka and Kansai. I have a lot of friends in Tokyo because I met them before I came here. If I had come here knowing no one, I think that I would have very few Japanese friends.

[SEndrigo]

What Mark said is spot-on....those of you who are considering moving to Tokyo would do well to take Mark's advice.

That being said, I don't think the only considerations are how convenient the train station is, and how many department stores there are nearby....some more considerations are:

1. Rent (I know many people who commute more than an hour and a half to central Tokyo, since they can't afford the rent). If you move just outside Tokyo (i.e. Kanagawa prefecture), you'd pay maybe half of what you'd pay if you lived in central Tokyo.

2. Entertainment - Although Tokyo is a megalopolis, there are different areas, which all have different vibes and activities. For example, you cannot tell me that Ginza, Harajuku, and Machida are all the same....they're all in Tokyo, but are vastly different from each other.

We can go on and on about how Kansai is so much better and the people are so much friendlier, etc, but at the end of the day, we live in Tokyo. We chose to live here....and so did many millions of other people. So obviously there are advantages to living here. There are way better jobs in Tokyo, and, in spite of it being a concrete jungle, there are many nice areas nearby (Shonan, Kamakura, Nikko, etc.).

To be honest, I'd have to say I have more Japanese friends who are from Kansai, but maybe that reflects my own personality and interest in Kansai-ben, rather than the fact that they are friendly.

One of the good things about Tokyo is that you can meet people from all over Japan....it's a melting pot....of Japanese people, that is.

[SEndrigo]

Another good thing about Tokyo is, you can talk to Kanto people and tell them the following things:

1. That the Hanshin Tigers will trounce the Yomiuri Giants any day of the week!

2. That Natto stinks, and is the most disgusting thing you've ever eaten.

3. That Udon tastes better than Soba.

4. That Kansai-ben is more lively, and animated, than Kanto-ben.

5. That in Kansai, people talk on the trains, instead of being slumped over each other or pressed face-first against the glass.

6. That Okonomiyaki tastes better than anything that ever came from Tokyo.

7. That Kobe is Japan's only true international city.

8. That Kobe beef tastes better than any beef in the Kanto area.

9. That the Kansai Yakuza are better-organised and run more efficiently than the Tokyo Yakuza (in fact, just after the Kobe earthquake, the Yakuza was reported to have helped many people)

10. That in Tokyo, the common greeting is a bland "Yo" whereas in Osaka, the common greeting is "Mokkari Makka" which means "are you making money?"

This is a great way to make new friends in Tokyo....you should try it sometime !!!

[Brooks]

yup, the reason we go to Tokyo is for work.
If I had moved to the Kansai region, I would have had to work at least two jobs in order to have the same salary I have in Tokyo.

I think after the bubble burst Osaka never really recovered.
And I think per capita Osaka has more homeless people than Tokyo.
Tokyo is the hub, just like London and Paris are.

I definitely prefer Kansai to Tokyo. Tokyo is just about work and making money. People come here from all over Japan to make money and pursue whatever career they have.
There are some cool people here but it is hard to meet them since everybody is busy and on their own schedule.

[SEndrigo]

Hey Brooks,

I've heard some people say that Kansai is a better place to live, and I wouldn't argue that, but I'm curious if it's really that much cheaper than the Tokyo area?

In fact, I don't think Kyoto, for example, is much cheaper than Tokyo....in fact when I made some comparisons whilst over there, things seemed just as expensive.

I've also read about Osaka being rated almost as high as Tokyo in the list of most expensive cities in the world.

I've always imagined southern Kyushuu (Miyazaki, for example) or Okinawa as ideal places to live in Japan (a relaxed lifestyle)

You say that you would have to work two jobs in Kansai to earn what you earn in Tokyo....by that standard, Kansai would have to be twice as cheap as Tokyo to give you the same lifestyle....which it isn't.

So doesnt that, at least in some way, make Tokyo a better place to live?

Mind you I'm not saying Tokyo is better for everyone, I'm just trying to figure out the real differences between the two.

[Smooth Operator]

Interesting topic. The only thing I can add is that the women in Osaka seem much more amenable to eye contact in the street than anywhere else in Japan. However, that is based on only the 1 afternoon I have spent in Osaka and I could have had something on my face at the time

Anyway, Brooks can you please expand a little on why you can earn double in Tokyo than in Kansai? I ask because in my city in Kyushu I have some friends who earn 500-000yen to 600,000yen a month from either teaching privately or combining that with college work. Also, it's fair to say there are colleges, universities and intl. schools in Kansai, so I'm wondering how Toyo can be so much better than Kansai, especially as university jobs in Tokyo get more applications than other places...

[Brooks]

hey, I didn`t say double.
I mean that I would have to work two jobs in order to match my salary here in Tokyo.
I find that salaries are higher in Tokyo than in Kansai, although it depends on the job.
There are more jobs available here in Tokyo.

If I could make 500,000 - 600,000 a month in Kyushu, I would move there. Seriously. My wife is from Osaka and she doesn`t like Tokyo.
So I have been wondering where to go after we leave Kanto.

My wife isn`t from Tokyo, she is Osakan. That should tell you something.
I don`t want to live with a stuck-up, busybody workaholic.
I would rather live with someone who works hard, is friendly and talkative, but isn`t pretentious, and likes to go out and have a good time.

I can`t believe Osaka is cheaper than in Tokyo.
I find that in the Tokyo area there are more places where you can buy second hand goods.

I don`t know if Kyushu or Okinawa are ideal, but if you can get a job in Okinawa, you would be lucky. I did have a friend who did a year as a JET in Miyazaki, and he had a good year there.

I think I am just not a big city person. I find Tokyo kind of alienating. I want to make money, but to me, there is more to live than just work. I need free time too, and I like to look at trees and mountains instead of concrete.

One good thing about leaving Tokyo would be that my Japanese would improve. I found that in Kansai I had more opportunity for speaking practice. I once went to a Mexican place in Kyoto and I was talking to the barkeeper who was surprised that my Japanese was worse than the other foreigners who have come to her restaurant.
In Tokyo I find that people don`t have the time to slow down their speech for me to understand, or are too 'busy' to talk with me.

[SEndrigo]

Hey Smooth,

500,000 - 600,000 per month in Kyushuu is a great income....I don't know anyone who makes that much money, outside of Tokyo.

The problem is, living in a city like Osaka is not any cheaper than Tokyo, jobs are not as plentiful, and a similar job in Osaka will pay less than in Tokyo.

I'd rather live in Kansai as well, but the job opportunities are too good to pass by in Tokyo....but I find that this place has a way of wearing you down.

I do know a few people who worked in Tokyo for several years, saved heaps of cash, then moved elsewhere in Japan !

[Mark]

Hi SEndrigo,

As for your two extra points about choosing a location in Tokyo, that's true. Rent is a factor. But it's a factor everywhere, so I just didn't include it. As for the second concern, entertainment, that's also true. But almost all of the places in Tokyo that have a distinctive vibe are in central Tokyo. Ginza and Harajuku are central places. Machida is a suburb and, although I've never been there, I assume it's like any other suburb.

I'd add two things about that, though.

1) It seems like everyone has their official area. Harajuku is for teenagers. Ginza is usually for women who want to do high-priced shopping. Ikebukuro is for people in their late 20s and especially people from Saitama. Shibuya is for young people. Shimo-kitazawa is for university students. On and on.

2) For most of the Japanese people I know, they don't really care where they go. Harajuku is special because it's for teenagers. But, most people just go to whatever big area is closest or most convenient to get to. As long as it has lots of department stores and izakayas, then it doesn't really matter. One city is as good as another. People here don't really seem to think of cities as having a "vibe". Nobody I know is interested in exploring new cities to see what they feel like. They don't see the point.

As for the point about whether Osaka is cheaper, it definitely is. One of the biggest differences is rent, as well as the quality of apartment that you get for the rent you pay. I know someone who has an apartment in Osaka, about 20 minutes from Osaka station or Namba station. It's a nice, big 3 bedroom apartment with wood floors, a big balcony and the works. It's only 100,000 yen. That apartment would cost a fortune in Tokyo, even in a suburb 20 minutes from the Yamanote.

[wintersweet]

[Speed]