Job Discussion Forums

[gregoryfromcali]

Hello,

A Freind of mine has been offered a summer contract with EF X'ian. He doesn't have a password for the board yet so I'm posting this for him.

He is already aware of the demanding work but as they are paying for his airfare for two months of work and he has a lot of experience he would like to get his feet wet in Asia.

I've been encouraging him to take it as there is a lot to see in and around X'ian.

Have you heard anything about this particular EF school?

Thanks in Advance.

[mingmong]

There are two schools in xian, it might help people answer your q if they know which one.
I am thinking about going to xian myself, so am also interested in the opinions offered.

[deezy]

Well run, busy schools. Excellent DoS. Lots going on. Go for it.

[SimonM]

What sort of visa are they offering him? I got an info pack on the EF Xi'an position, am not taking it because of the hours, but was also suspicious of the visa situation with them.

[englishgibson]

Simon, you should not be worried about the Work Visa issues with the EF English First organization, because most of their centers have fairly good connections. I personally do not know the EF X'ian's center and I do not know the visa situation in that part of China, but believe me whatever directions the center gives that should be followed by the foreign applicant as long as you speak to their Director of Studies or Center Manager. It is a large franchise and they will not fool arround with their employees visas, however they might take you for a ride with their "EF" Contracts and TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS ONE TOO. Further more their teaching hours in their Contracts might not exactly work out with your actual work input or expectations due to some travelling involved at times. You should be aware and ask any EF that you apply for about their scheduling and lessons that they do not conduct only on premises of their centers, but also outside, so for example EF LESSONS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS/COMPANIES THAT ARE AWAY (MORE THAN HALF AN HOUR SOMETIMES) would thow you off on the schedule due to the traveling involved? So, my advice is ask anywhere you apply about that since it might apply for other private centers too. It has become a standard practice in China to make their teachers travel out of their centers. You also might not find that in a Contract, but EF's policy was and I believe still is "no further than half an hour of traveling for a lesson". It is too bad that that point is not in the actual teacher's Contract.
Cheers and Beers

[SimonM]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going to pursue a job through EF though. First I don't like the hours situation. 40 is WAY more than I expected, especially for the pay. Second I have just seen too many bad reviews of EF through this board today, I don't want to go somewhere that has clearly been... uncertain... in the quality of working conditions. I DO really want to get to China as fast as possible but I have every reason to believe that better jobs are available and I don't want to hate my time there. I have been looking foreward to (and planning) this trip for almost a year now and I want it to go well.

[deezy]

Simon... the 40 hours are made up thus:

.... up to 29 academic hours (which are 40 minutes) per week. This equates to max of 20 real hours. Currently I'm teaching my maximum ach's (I'm the DoS) of 18, (12 'real' hours) and one of my teachers is up to 26 ach's, (and I refuse to let him do any more) another is feeling guilty as she only has 15, but I've got her making props for a show we're doing next month.

.... time for lesson planning (generally calculated at one hour per 3 academic hours, but for new teachers it's often longer).

... time for demo lessons, placement testing, meetings and training.

During the summer 'camp' (a loose term as I haven't yet seen any tents), the hours are still 40 real hours a week, but 6 days a week instead of 5. I get my teachers to make a note of their hours so that I can adjust their schedules accordingly. If we work over those hours (which we do), we get days off in lieu (rather than overtime pay). That's why I can take my trip next week, that's why I got a month off last Xmas.

I hear of some teachers who don't do much lesson planning, it really depends on experience and dedication I guess. Summer 'camps' are different in that there are other activities besides English 'teaching', we go off on trips, we do activities such as projects, painting, drama... etc.

The deal with EF is quite good for summer camp teachers, in that they get their airfare paid, plus 4500 a month, plus accommodation. It's intensive, but there's opportunities to experience another culture, and of course stay on and have a bit of a trip around China.

I hear of teachers elsewhere who work horrendous hours in terrible conditions, plus those who are having a delightful time teaching 15 hours a week at 100 yuan an hour. The conditions at EF schools are excellent, lots of computers, clean classrooms, resources, good accommodation (although sometimes share with another), insurance cover etc. etc.

But you are still subject to the whims of the Chinese management, including the investors who want their rewards. But isn't that the same with all Chinese private schools? ( EF is a Swedish company, but all the franchises are owned by Chinese). I have a marvellous relationship with my 'leaders' but when push comes to shove, what they say, goes. If they say 'jump' the Chinese staff say 'how high?', the English teachers and I make our objections, but still generally do what is asked.

[gregoryfromcali]

I understand what you are saying about the long hours.

My friend is probably going to take a summer position there and as he's never been to China this may be his chance to go to a country he probably would go to otherwise since he is off in the summer.

[englishgibson]

Deezy, you are a true promoter of EF, aren�t you? Because you have time to promote so extensively on the forum, I am beginning to believe that the EF English First is providing their staff with LOW WORKING HOURS those days. That 26 real teaching hours (I don�t think that 29 is in the standard EF Contract anymore) with �as you say 10 hours� of necessary preparation IS DEFINITELY NOT FOR NEWCOMERS to EF and EF has got loads of newcomers (HIGH TURNOVER-WHY?).
I HAVE GOT A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

EF Way stage 1 (Old system Level 5) first conditional tense question:
What will you do as an EF DOS, if your employer asks you to schedule and send your academic staff members to a public school/company that is 40 minutes away from your EF center (due to the employer�s insistence the traveling cannot be included in teaching hours)?

EF Way stage 2 (Old system Level 6) second conditional tense question:
What would you do as an EF DOS, if your employer insisted on having three teachers sharing one apartment?

EF Threshold 1 (Old system Level third conditional tense question:
Would you have chosen a company to work for, if you had heard more bad news than good news about it?

I am not trying to take your happy working relationship with your employers away from you, but we need to pay attention to the statistics.
Cheers and Beers

[SimonM]

Thank you very much for the job offers (though I will not be accepting them, I've already heard the horror stories about summer camps). Also thank you for the information regarding how 40 hours is not really 40 hours Deezy however I have already decided that I don't want to work for EF.

[deezy]

Good questions

Actually, at the moment our centre is quite busy, but we are a small centre, and I honestly refuse to allow the teachers to work more than they can handle. What's the point, - if they will then up and leave? Maybe I've been in business and HR for long enough to be able to negotiate with the management and get them to realise that it's counterproductive to get the teachers working so many hours. We have a good team, a new teacher starting next week who will have very few hours to start with. To give you an idea... one teacher is doing 26 ach's he's the busiest and refuses to offload any of his classes to another teacher who is complaining that she only has 14 ach's. I at the moment have 18 ach's as I'm the only one who can teach the level of business English which we are teaching. That, I am finding, is too much for me, so I may offload one of the classes which I do on a Saturday, a group of highly intelligent 10 year olds which I really enjoy teaching. I 'do' know how long it takes to plan these lessons!

As to your questions

Q1. I wouldn't allow it. It wouldn't happen. Any travelling time would be scheduled into their real hours. As it is with one of my staff who teaches Kinder 3 days a week, and his journey is only 10 minutes but over a 3 day period that adds up.

Q2. This happened here. I was at the time just out of hospital, and the teachers had 'coped' because they didn't want to bother me, so I didn't find out for a while. I got everyone into my apartment for a meeting. Insisted that the teachers decide who should move out... volunteer. No one volunteered so I said, right ... you...move to this apartment tomorrow. Everyone was happy. NO WAY should there be three to an apartment. Doesn't work.

Q3. I'd make my own judgements. I'd talk to the staff, CM, teachers, of the particular centre. I'd make sure I had a return ticket. I'd research that particular centre. I'd make sure I had a return ticket. These are what I did. I made sure I had a return ticket!

I've not said it's perfect at my centre. I've never said EF in general is the best place to come and teach. I agree with a great deal of what you say.
Both our schools are new, I've had the chance to 'shape' the policies and procedures rather than inherit. I have an inexperienced CM who is delightful and she's been eager to learn from my mentoring. Her English is excellent (that makes a huge difference - the CM at the other centre doesn't speak much English so is not communicating as well as he should with the DoS).

If you read my other posts you'll see that I get just as much aggro. It depends on how you deal with it. Some things I just 'ride the wave'. Others I make loud noises, write official objection letters etc. If the teachers have a complaint, and it's a valid complaint (more often than not it is), then I back them up. What can they do? Sack me? Do I care? They know that. They know I have a place to return to, a life out of China. It's when they have you 'over a barrel' and know that you must stay because you can't afford to go back, or have nowhere to go, that they can manipulate you. If I feel strongly enough about something, I would say, okay, I'm outta here. Simple as that. But I can do that. Others can't.

I'm sure that when I finish here, I shall move to somewhere where I can teach only, as teaching is what I enjoy best. And earn more than I earn as a DoS. I have friends who are teaching 10-15 hours a week... using the same lesson plan over and over again, and getting 8000 a month. Don't think I could stand the boredom of doing the same lesson, and I doubt I would enjoy 80 in a classroom as much, but it would be a change from dealing with policies, procedures, troubleshooting etc. etc. (as I'm sure Englishgibson has much experience of!).

Also, we only hear from people who have had bad experiences at EF. Bad news travels so much faster. But there are heaps of teachers who are happy at EF... all mine are for instance... we don't hear from them, they're too busy having a good time (or maybe lesson planning ). I just try to balance that, and be more of a 'devil's advocate' than an 'EF advocate'.

Now I'm off to do some planning..... planning my holiday next week

[dazzaa26]

Also, we only hear from people who have had bad experiences at EF. Bad news travels so much faster. But there are heaps of teachers who are happy at EF... all mine are for instance... we don't hear from them, they're too busy having a good time!

NOW ..... THERE IS A GOOD POINT YOU KNOW.

[Zero Hero]

[dazzaa26]

Zero hero...

dazzaa26 was quoting the other person in the thread, and then commenting on it with a little one-liner.

Maybe, my post was not as clear as it should be, but if you read the previous posts you would put 2 and 2 together and work this out.


hope that clears up any misunderstandings

[englishgibson]

Why don't you all put two and two together here:
DO NOT JOIN ANY EF ENGLISH FIRST CENTER IN CHINA IF YOU CAN READ AND WRITE IN ENGLISH!
There are many more unhappy foreign and Chinese EF staff members than the happy ones. As someone here on the forum suggested that the unhappy ones do usually come forward and the happy ones do not due to their busy schedules, I must say to contradict you that many unhappy ones do also not come forward due to the �intimidation tactics� well-presented in China as well as due to the unhappy former EF employees� busy working schedule too, busy seeking new job opportunities and getting on with their lives too.
Further more the unhappy ones or unfortunate ones are well-brushed off by their EF English First Head Office, when asking for help or complaining.
So, if you want to discuss the EF English First lack of professionalizm, honesty, integrity and so on and on with me BE MY GUEST and pm me any time.
Cheers and Beers