Job Discussion Forums

[Volodiya]

People who live in other countries, who are thinking about coming to China to live and work as FTs, often read our posts and get at least a "mixed" picture. But I'm concerned that even a thorough reading of these posts does not reveal the full range of risks one takes in coming to China, if poorly prepared. The reason is this. Reading these posts does not reveal the "end of the story" of those who came here, expecting to teach, and who experienced a disasterous series of unexpected, but not unpredictable, setbacks. They post here, looking for help: help is given in the form of a number of suggestions from experienced China hands. Then they simply stop posting, leaving the rest of us to wonder what finally happened to them. For example, in that they quit posting I cannot but guess what happened in the two instances that quickly come to mind from this forum. (Perhaps others will know the end of the story, in each case.)

[Before I go on, let me tell you I asked each of them to inform us what happened in the end: they chose not to. Perhaps I, too, would not want others to know, if it were a bad ending. But, for our purposes in informing, and warning the unwary, it would be useful to have heard the conclusion.]

I remember the case of "soultraveller". He let us know (through these forums) that he had six months leave from work. He flew, as I recall, from Canada, to Vietnam, hoping to work there. I don't know what happened but, about a week later, he found himself in Laos, where he worked for awhile. Then, he fled Laos, citing "visa problems", and came to Kunming. After a week or so there, he vanished from these boards, saying he was sure something would work out. I hope it did. We never heard from him again.

The second case that comes to mind is "afireinside". (They were a couple). They wrote, saying they had sold everything back home, and come to China on a promise of a job- sadly, a job was not waiting for them. Several people came to their aide with advice. Then, we heard nothing further from them.
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Many people have come to China and found things to be satisfactory, or even better than that, in both their work and their life here. But some have met with disaster. To give a balanced presentation, I think we should let these examples be a caution to those who would, straining all prudence, come to China without sufficient preparation. Perhaps you, who post regularly here, know of others, personally.
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What preparation should be made before coming to China to work to avoid a serious risk of meltdown could perhaps be supplied in greater detail by some of the China hands I referred to earlier.

[Roger]

Quite my opinion too - those who solicit opinions from already-established FTs should give the forum a little feedback on how things worked out for them.

There was an Aussie couple (if I remember correctly: not a single person) who arrived in SHANGHAI, virtually penniless (or at least not well-to-do even though they had sold their property back in Oz!), only to find that their would-be employer had reneged on his contract.

I used to be a backpacker, someone who solved all his problems on his own (there were no computers in Africa, Europe, Russia, Asia in those days, no Dave's and no LONELY PLANET website in those days); it really does amaze me to come across so nmany posts from people who SOS the world at large because they happened to have fallen on hard times due to poor planning and zero foresight.

[kev7161]

I agree. So many people come on here seeking advice, people we've never seen before. A dozen or so people give their input, good or bad, but we never hear back from the OP. I've given my own share of advice and feedback, but sometimes I have to think, "why bother?" But, then again, there are a few that come back and thank everyone for their pearls of wisdom. I still wonder what happened to some of these people though.

Now, playing Devil's Advocate: Some of these newbies come on with this or that problem and some of us seem to jump down their throats. If I got this type of response, I wouldn't want to come back either.

[cujobytes]

I honestly don't think anything can prepare one for the reality of China, especially if it's ones first visit to Asia. The one preparation, for piece of minds sake, is to always have enough cash to enact 'plan B', that is, if it all goes to hell you can afford to go to the nearest international airport and get 'home' wherever that may be. The other thing to always keep in mind is that thieves are everywhere, especially on public transport, waiting to relieve you of your plan b cash. Don't become a victim, stay alert and vigilant at all times.
I would be interested in the differences between what people expected and what their reality on arrival was.

[latefordinner]

Kev, good point. Sometimes in saying, "Wake up and smell the coffee!" We manage to spill a mugful of hot liquid into the laps of innocent sleepers. Just what you need to start the day...
Then there are those of us (myself included) who haven't exactly found life a bed of roses, but haven't entirely crashed and burned either. Who have, in Chinese fashion, muddled through one crisis at a time. We tend to give inconsistent advice, based upon our own not entirely duplicable experiences.
It can't be easy for the newbie to tell who is posting for what reason, not having aquired a certain familiarity with this site and it's posters, and the field in general. That seems to require that one survive a year or more of whatever comes one's way, and as CB notes, there really isn't anything that can prepare you for that. That's some catch, that catch 22.

[tofuman]

There may be an element of shame for those who "fail" in their exploits here; consequently, they may not be interested in baring their souls when they already feel humiliated.

In some cases, the shame is on those who choose to stay in sub-standard conditions with broken contracts, thereby sending the message that FTs can be exploited.

I feel sorry for those who have been disappointed by their employers. Many came here with good intentions, only to be lied to, cheated, betrayed by those they intended to serve.

I thought I might marry and settle down here, but thanks to some posters who have shared their experiences, I decided that there is too much risk involved. I'm even more sorry for those who have been betrayed by someone with whom they shared a bed.

With God's help, I turned a bad situation into a fairly decent one, but made a lot of enemies in the process. I don't expect to stay where I am now, but when I leave, I expect to walk away with my self respect and human dignity intact.

There is quiet now, but the conflict has not ended.

Ocean kayaking is not a bad past time, away from the filth, noise, congestion, and corruption of the cities of China. It's always nice to have options.

[struelle]

I'd reckon that there are two prudential extremes, if you will, of people who are overly prudent and those aren't prudent enough.

The first case is all too common in my own father and people in his generation, that is they plan for practically everything. Short term plans, long terms plans, backup plans, you name it, he's got it. At his age it's not surprising as his pimarily goal is to save as much money for retirement as possible. In the boomer generation, there seems to be this tremendous fear about retirement and what to do with it. They've planned so well to get there, but now what?!

On the other hand (and I'm sure my Dad was like this when he was younger), you've got those who throw caution to the wind and make the kind of poor decisions that lead to the meltdowns we read about here.

I think it's a far worse error to be overly prudent, as you get crippled with fear and can't handle taking inevitable risks in life and solving tricky problems that come with adventure.

But it's always good to look at simple measures you can take to plan ahead and avoid meltdowns, and they are not difficult. Carrying reserve cash and travel insurance is good, same with being vigilant of your stuff, and letting people know your itinerary. It also makes sense to give yourself OPTIONS in your work situation to avoid being locked in with dodgy employers.

I also get frustrated when a poster bails for help, gets it, and doesn't respond later on.

Maybe we're all just a kind lot on Dave's here, eh?

Steve

[NorbertRadd]

Virtue's its own reward or, is it, no good deed goes unpunished.

I appreciate any feedback generated for me.

Cheers.

[deezy]

NorbertRadd said

[Talkdoc]

[Roger]

At the risk of being seen as bashing newbies, here is my advice: I think it is no good idea for people with zero travelling experience and zero foreign language skills to plunge into a job situation in a remote corner of the world.
It would be far wiser for all of them to first learn how to socialise with total strangers while enjoying one's holidays or an extended time off to travel extensively. To work in a different country requires a lot more flexibility, moral and mental stability and an ability to widen one's horizon than is normally found in most of us.
I honestly believe touring the world on your own, paying your way as you travel teaches you a lot more than any of these books could teach you.
Most newbies that post here their SOS show a childish naivete and recklessness that we shouldn't encourage further. If anyone runs out of money they really only have themselves to blame for that. And not knowing that legal restrictions rule over whether you get employment here or not is absolutely no excuse for any Westerner who is found working illegally and then deported.

[tradinup]

There are obviously lots of challenges in working abroad in a foreign country, but at the same time, the fact is that supporting yourself here, for most, is way easier than in your home country. Even on like 5000rmb, you are still making 5 times more than the locals, who manage to live. When Chinese people tell me I am brave for doing this, I have to laugh, to be a foreigner in China is to have a truly great and easy life. Nor can I pat myself on the back for accomplishing working abroad, I would just be lying to myself, this is a long, wonderful vacation... Agreed?

[Volodiya]

I understand where you're coming from, tradinup, and I'm glad you've had a positive experience. In the hopes that others will have a good experience in China, a number of people have written for this thread-
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It seems that several "caveats" have been developed, so far; I can add some of my own, and there may be others added, later, to help the readers avoid a "meltdown" in China, should they decide to try it.

Among these, are the following: (please forgive me if you suggested something, and I misunderstood the implication of what you wrote):

1) Bring cash [and/or a credit card], to guard against unexpected financial shocks, and keep an eye on it! (contributed by cujobytes, mainly);

2) Learn as much Chinese as you reasonably can, before you come over (contributed by talkdoc);

3) Get some experience teaching English before coming, as a volunteer or, better yet, through a short-course (CELTA or TEFL). Teaching English is complex enough, and the demands on your energy and emotions are enough, that some contact with the work before you come can help you keep your sanity and do a better job for your students (my own contribution);

4) Understand that you may find it from difficult, to impossible, to get legal work in China without a degree (Roger); unless you are legal, there is a risk the authorities will ask you to leave the country, on short notice;

5) Expect China to be very different and "foreign" feeling to you (cujobytes, latefordinner and talkdoc), unless you've had lots of experience travelling abroad (Roger): the Chinese writing system will add to your feeling of "foreigness", as you won't be able to read signs, or menus (my own);

6) Come prepared to "stick it out"- see the difficulties through, because there'll be some (latefordinner); and, complete your first contract, if you can- good for you, good for your employer, and, hopefully, good for your students! (my own);

7) Don't expect other people to bail you out if you get in trouble (Roger); but, if you find you need advice from those who've "been there", you can turn to them for help on this forum (struelle). If you do, then by all means LISTEN to them! (Roger);

Prepare- but don't let your fears stop you, if you're ready for a challenge (struelle);

9) Don't forget to thank those who help you along the way with good advice (deezy and kev7161);

10) For those who succeed, the personal rewards are many (tradinup);

11) With God's help, you can do it (tofuman)!

[struelle]

[Volodiya]

Struelle, I can see where you might want to take exception to tradinup's use of the word "vacation": I didn't attach too much significance to it, assuming he just meant that, for him, life in China didn't seem too laden with hardships.

I guess it also means that he hadn't found teaching to be overly taxing for him. [Many people find it beyond them: I certainly believe people should try it, before concluding they'll be able to do it, if they haven't done it before.]

We all see our present situation through the lens of our experience. As one who spent many years in the former Soviet Union I, too, find China to be an easy country to be in- aside from the difficulty of reading signs and communicating in Chinese, to which Talkdoc addressed his well chosen comments.