Job Discussion Forums

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

If you've been reading some of my recent posts, you know that I've been considering staying just a while longer in China due to a "possible" job. Yesterday I went to see the school and do a mini-interview. I did this on my own accord, not that they requested me to do so. I feel they probably would have hired me, sight unseen, based on my qualifications (and perhaps they are really desperate):

Anyway, the job pays 10,000rmb per month plus all the extras/perks. They want a foreign teacher who has credentials to teach elementary students (first graders) all subjects: math, social studies, science, art, English . . . even PE (I balked at that one - in my former US school, the kids were sent off to have PE with the PE teacher . . . I got to grade papers). . . all in English.

Yes, there would be a Chinese assistant in the class, but I've been "assured" that his/her role would be mainly to communicate to me if there was a problem, such as a crying child.

Basically, they would want me to develop the curriculum even going so far as suggesting I bring some Grade 1 textbooks back from the US (should I go home to visit this summer) - - not exactly legal (unless they actually ordered the student's version from the printing company - - my guess is that they would copy from the text I would bring back, but I'm making assumptions here).

The working hours are great: M-F 8:25am to 2 or 2:30 pm (plus lesson planning time) with a 2 hour break for lunch in there. Essentially about 4 teaching hours a day for 5 days. Weekends off. The school looked nice and had several amenities. And the pay is very desirable.

The problems? Firstly, this is an experimental program and I'm the guinea pig. Secondly, it's a private school and you all know the luck I've had with my CURRENT private school (I was "assured" that the students are NO problem here and they have very little discipline problems. . . uh-huh.). Also, they say I have to live on campus, a shared apartment. That could be a deal-breaker for me. I would rather live off campus or, if on campus, at least my own apartment. Also, it's far away from city center. Finally, they want a two-year contract signed so the same teacher can be with the little darlings two years running.

So now I have to balance (should they offer me the job) the great pay with the negatives. Also, teaching up to 25 first graders in America (although I taught 5th/6th graders mostly) is a whole different ballgame than teaching 25 Chinese first graders with very little English.

Hmmm, not sure what else I can tell you, but would like to get some feedback from you - - your thoughts and ideas.

Sinobear · Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269 Location: Purgatory

Go fer it, Kev! They can put a termination clause in the contract...so can you.
Demand the private apartment or a reasonable stipend for your own place. At worst, you'll have tried it and found it not to your liking...at best????

Cheers!

cujobytes · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: >

Finishing the day at 2.00 or 2.30 sounds a bit odd as lunch is usually 12-2 or 12.30-2.30. Unless maybe they have a 1 hour lunch.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

My teaching day would be finished by 2 or 2:30. The students would then have Chinese lessons and English Grammar lessons from a Chinese teacher.

I have, indeed, asked for a single apartment or a stipend to live off campus. Plus, I've asked for a couple other really simple things to seal the deal. I like the idea of a termination clause. I've seen that discussed on here before, but didn't think of it.

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

To each his own, but if it were me I'd take it (or rather, as you seem to be doing, negotiate it a bit). I personally would love the challenge of designing and tweaking the program. A lot of the downsides to teaching as we know it could be minimized if we could do this. If you do, let us know how it goes, please.

bendan · Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 739 Location: North China

I think the very fact they expect the teacher to share an apartment would ring alarm bells for me. If they want qualified, experienced teachers and are offering 10,000 a month, why would they suggest something as ridiculous as that?

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

If I have nothing else good to say about my current school, at least I can say they gave most of us a nice single apartment, spacious and comfortable. I may sound spoiled, but this is the lifestyle I've grown accustomed to here and I also shared that same lifestyle in my home country (single, live alone, come and go as I please - - you know . . . an ADULT).

I don't know how two or more strangers can do it here. What if you want to read and listen to music and he/she wants to watch sports on TV? What about potential overnight guests? What if he's a neat freak and you're a slob? What if both of you are morning bathers (that hot water heater only goes so far, you know)? I realize if you are a couple, then you make sacrifices and compromises, but someone you don't even know? And for that matter, what if you don't like each other - - that could get REAL uncomfortable real quickly!

winterlynx · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: Right for you?

The offer sounds basically reasonable. But be clear with what's important to you, personally, and then see what you can negotiate. Some organizations are really very willing to accommodate you. And if they are accommodating, and existing teachers give the school a good reference, then you've a good indication that the school is worth working for.

I actually put more weight on the attitude, organization and references than I do on the particulars of the contract - although both are important. A good contract won't change the experience you'll have at a bad school. So, check 'em out! Wink

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Are you up to teaching subjects other than English using English as the medium of instruction, that's the question here, I guess.
I would love to tech them PE - that's a great motivator of subject! As for the sciences and other theoretical subjects - I would be wary! It's an "experimental" school, right? This means they don't have many clues just yet how to go about their job; in fact, the central government isn't really keen on pushing English in the classrooms too much. And this certainly is an instance of using English in a manner that's not compatible with current goals of the national education curriculum. Only an elite minority can be admitted to such schools, and they have to pay through their noses. Which also means that FTs usually get much more generous packages offered than the one you detailed, Kevin!
The problem will pretty soon be that your students cannot cope with English as the language of instruction. And then, they will come down on you!

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

The whole school isn't experimental - - only this particular class. There are other FTs there making the standard salary teaching "conversational" English.

Quite frankly, even if I were there for only 6 months and they ended the program, thus terminating my contract, I would be okay with that. As long as I had received my monthly pay up to that point and I get (at least) a one-way ticket home. My goal was to stay in China for only an additional 3 to 6 months to get a little more money in my pocket before going home.

Rest assured, once I sign a contract, I will complete it, but if they end it, I won't be angry in the least. I'll have to make sure I talk with them (and get it in the contract) about what is due to me should the above situation happen (but, heck, they haven't even offered me the job yet!!!).

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

Hmm ... the word 'experimental' does ring alarm bells, at least in my experience. The big problem, as I see it, is that the authorities can cancel or change the experiment according to their whims.

I was invited to teach a full-blown Senior 2 Science course last year (Physics, to be exact) using English as the medium of instruction. It was at a boarding school in Shanghai, all locals, but they were constructing a new school wing for international students. To my knowledge, that wing is open now with mainly Koreans in attendance.

Before opening the new wing and hiring new teachers, they wanted to try English-run subjects with me and my colleague first (she taught American History). That enticed me to sign a contract, and I figured it was a step up. I was to teach Senior English, Physics, and do teacher training with the Chinese teachers.

It started off very well, and feedback was good from students, teachers, and admin all around.

But after Spring Festival, the Physics and teacher training programs were canceled for no apparent reason. My FAO claimed that students and teachers were too busy to carry on with these programs, and they had no 'practical use', i.e. they didn't directly help with passing any required tests.

I salvaged the rest of the year by teaching Science Reading articles, which commonly appear on the NCEE exams. As well the teacher training programs resumed in May to help prepare a group of teachers for going to Australia.

One thing I'd really emphasize here is tests and evaluation procedures. If the admin can connect your classes with some required tests that students must pass, they'll be more committed to the experiment. If there is no such connection, then clear criteria on what students will get out of the classes is the next best thing.

Despite all the whims and roundabout ways the FAOs approach experiments, what they're really after are measurable results in academic achievement.

Steve

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

According to our conversation, they are looking for a degree-holder with elementary education credentials and experience (that's me), so probably not a "backpacker" kind of thing. The school has their other FTs sharing apartments but I still don't agree with that set-up. Again, today is just two days after our interview/discussion and they are now on holiday, so we'll see . . .

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

Well, they may not be (knowingly) seeking a backpacker, but be prepared to be treated as one whether you are or not. How many professional teachers would ever accept such an arrangement?

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

It isn't "alarming" in the least that you are expected to "share" an apartment; so long as you have your private bedroom, private bathroom and keys to them I can't see much to worry about. I had shared accommodation with a guy, and we even had separate bathrooms. The only trouble was that my colleague had visitors that left his private room without so much as closing the apartment front door, which annoyed me (anyone else could enter then without arousing anyone's attention).

As for the "experimental" in the school's name, could you, perhaps, check the school's track record? Are they totally new? What kind of teaching philosophy do they subscribe to? It doesn't have to be negative; it most often is, if only because the more organised of Chinese schools are already infamous enough for their ad hoc style of operations, and when you add "experiment" then obviously the principals would like to be at the decision-making end, which bodes ill for a FT.
If, on the other hand, the school has graduated students who enrolled at, say, overseas universities then perhaps they have learnt a few lessons from outside.