Job Discussion Forums

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

I know this gets asked every so often but I never read the posts as I never had the reason to. Now it's my turn to be in the soup.
I'm sure my school is going under soon, as yesterday a teacher returned to England as his mother was diagnosed with cancer, and another teacher went on 'holiday' to Japan and I don't think he's coming back. I'm alone now, and if the fellow in Japan doesn't return the school will lose it's approval to hire foreign teachers. Upper management in the school are leaving, and last term there were far less students than the term before. There are many other problems that I won't bore you with, mostly revolving around the ill-management of this school, questionable faithfulness to my contract, and my annoyance with this town and indeed province. I'd like to leave ASAP. I have a Z visa valid until May, with a residency permit. If I change jobs without getting a letter of release, will I or my new employer have to pay a fine? Can I legally get another job with this visa, or is it tied to my current employer?

Peter · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 161

I think it matters where you are,here in Shenzhen I have \changed jobs and nobody asked about letters of release ever.
They were not even interested about my visa status, as most of use here get by on a 6 months tourist visa, renewed in Hong Kon.g

Peter · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 161

Your visa is applicable to you, there is no connection with an employer as far as I know. Also there are no hard and fast rules in China.
Local habits and use.......just go to another place and never mention that you arerunning, you are just looking to expand possibilities
It is the hiring season, the new term start at the 17 th , so schools are looking for staff/

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

You should have no problem finding a new job. What is best is if your new school has the legal right to hire you, so you can get a new residence permit. Technically your residence permit is only good for your old school, and technically they could give you a $500 fine for trying to leave the country on a z-visa without turning in a valid residence permit
If your residence permit is valid until May, then I see no real possibilty for problems. I have only heard of one case where airport management tried to fine a foreign teacher for leaving the country without a valid, current residence permit. Would be curious if any one else ever heard of this happening?

xiaoyu · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:48 pm Post subject:

be careful! i think it must depend on where you are in china, and for whom you are working for but i know personally several people who got into some serious trouble in this kind of situation (trying to leave a job for a different position) depending on the level of guan xi your employer might have it can be a real problem where you can't get another job or leave the country.... contact your consulate, speak to any foreigners that might be in your city to get their point of view, experience..... you are technically supposed to turn in your foreign expert card to the school you are leaving and have one month in which to find another job that will get you a new foreign experts card, sponsored by them.... this might vary between provinces and cities but it was the way in shenyang, liaoning province and you might be surprised how much changes depending on the political strenght of the school you are working for..... for your own protection keep your search for work quiet and tape record all meetings with your current and prospective employers.... just to keep yourself aware and more secure! good luck

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

You know that you need a release letter, but in your situation, you are not likely to get it. 3 months left on your work visa - in your case, I would move on if I had a new job somewhere in the deep south or in Shanghai.
Peter, Chris, and to some extent myself, are suggesting that you work illegally. Be aware of its implications! However, in Guangdong, you are not likely to be spotted.
What does puzzle me is the expiry date of your work visa. May is one month or more before the second semester ends. So, have you been working for a private institute?
I suppose, you will have to spend June without a legal job, possibly on a tourist visa, then get hired for the new semester at the end of August!
This way, you can avoid embarrassment over your work permit, residence permit and FE licence! All of which, you know, you should hand in to your employer prior to quitting!
I hope you don't want to hurt him or her by keeping these documents!

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

I've decided to play it safe and stay here in Luoyang, at least until May when my visa expires. I had some offers in Guangdong but some seemed too dodgy (one man offered to buy me a car to drive to the beach, another offered me a DOS position, which I'm underqualified for in my view. I think I even had a run in with the Chinese fellow in Maoming claiming to be Australian that Roger mentioned once). Really, I'd not feel bad about stitching this school up, as this place is strange beyond words. I know for a fact they screwed over a former teacher, a long story in itself. Some informants in the school told me all about it. The school swimming pool is now a cesspool full of beer bottles. School guards swear at me every day in Henan dialect (they can't speak Mandarin), and the headmasters pretend I don't exist. There's some kind of strange rivalry between this school and the other private school in the city, with occasional vandalism. Rumors abound that I have 4 Chinese girlfriends and that I drink beer all day (the beer drinker was the English fellow, I seldomly drink!). The owner of the school is the wealthiest man in Luoyang, who openly tells me he bribes the local PSB regularly. The school has had so many problems keeping foreign teachers that the education dept. in Zhengzhou has told them they will lose their approval to have foreign teachers if they have one more problem. As I'm sure Chris can tell you, the people in the ed. dept. in Zhengzhou are the few people you can trust around here. Combine the weirdness of my school with living in a small, poor, filthy, backwards little town where grown men deficate in the street. I can't walk in Luoyang with any female Chinese without her getting called a prostitute, that above anything really makes me angry. Anyway, end rant. The only things keeping me here are a few friends and the primary school students, who like me quite a bit and I'm sure would be sad to see me leave so abruptly. I'm counting down the days...

noodles · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 67

Hey Peter,
I have just arrived in Shenzhen(baoan, actually,hhmm) and having originally been promised a z visa it now looks like that is not going to happen, so i am wondering how esy it is to keep renewing my tourist visa and if there is a limit to how many times it can be done. Also if you now of any other good schools in the main SEZ, just in case it doesn't work out here for me. Any info you have would be gratefully appreciated, as you seem to have been here for a while. Thanks. [email protected]

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Seth,

As soon as the school I am at now gets me on ADSL, I am starting a group for Henan, listing the schools, etc, what's good and bad. It migh not matter for you, but I would love the name of the school for future prospective teachers.
[email protected]

There are many thing I love and hate here but the two I hate most is when a young punk calls the Chinese girl you are walking with a prostitute ( I know he is the one with the probelm, but..) It's never happened yet in front of me, but you can read the vibes sometimes.

The other was when I was doing some bargaining in Dengfeng (Shaolin temple) and an old country woman who was overcharging me on a painting accused the girl I was with of "not being Chinese" because the girl was not helping her rip me off. I wish I knew Chinese then!

The students are magic, though

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

Ok, I'm turning this into my personal rant thread, as the foreigner turnover rate in this town has left me alone again.
Here they're not shy about calling your female friends prostitutes. They laugh and point at her and shout 'xiaojie!' Sometimes they'll look at you and say 'Osama bin Laden' and laugh. Every day, without exception, I hear silly, sing-song 'hellos' and laughing, people pointing, and 5 times in my 8 months here I've been accosted by children (usually around 12 or so) shouting '*beep* you' at least 10 times until I'm out of their view. Taxi drivers constantly try to rip you off, and only get more angry when they realize you can speak Mandarin and you know the layout of the town. I've been chased by taxi drivers twice after not paying 30 yuan or so for a 10 yuan ride after they 'forgot' to turn on the meter. I've had drunk men (who are everywhere) throw things around a restaurant and tip over tables to show their frustration at the laowai in their midst, though have fortunately never threatened me directly. Northern Chinese, as opposed to Southern, are large people. I hear the occasional 'yang guizi' (ocean devil, as we come from across the ocean) and 'laowai gun' (laowai get the hell out). Basically I can't do anything here without being a walking freakshow. If I stay here much longer I'll go insane. The women here are very kind and sweet, but the men are unbearable. When I visited Guangzhou a month ago I thought I was in paradise! Crying or Very sad

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Dear Seth,
my heartfelt sympathy! I guess you are in the worst hellhole. It can only be better no matter where you go! Guangzhou? I don't think it is paradise, but yes, I never hear "yang guilou" or something of that category! However, Cantonese are generally, and not unfairly, regarded as less sophisticated than northerners. Perhaps you live in a blighted spot, a city where state-owned mammoth factories closed down and workers have been jobless for the past few years. That might explain why men treat you, the laowai, with so much scorn!
As for women... they want to get out of the hell there! Their men can't be counted on for a bright future!

Yesterday, I heard from someone that an expat has quit his job after just 3 months in Guangdong - because he was unable to find a girlfriend! Unlike in other countries, it seems girls are pickier here these days (it used to be different a few years back!).
Well, you don't seem to be looking for female company, so the job might still be available...

Freaky Deaky · Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 309 Location: In Jen's kitchen

Get out of there. You must have skin like a rhino to tolerate such crap. I once had a bunch of sixteen-year olds shout 'f*** you' to me and thought it was hilarious until I 'corrected' them. I doubt if they'll hurl verbal abuse again without thinking first. But seriously, man, get out of there.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

It's amazing how different this country can be. I have taught in Zhengzhou , in a small town to the south, and a small town to the west (halfway to luoyang). The worst thing I can say that ever happened to me was a drunk guy kept bothering me at a outdoor "restaurant" wanting me to drink with him. His buddies eventually dragged him away, and apologized.
Don't stay in a bad situation that is killing you. There are a lot of good schools. And I am not one that takes leaving lightly, I know howmgood students can be, but are you sure you want to do this for the rest of the semester?

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

The whole residency permit and release letter issues make me hesitant to leave, as I'm not the adventurous type and try to follow the law the best I can. I think I also have the winter blahs, being alone in my dorm (yes, I live in a dorm room) with no heat, going for weeks without being able to feel my toes! Having also had to miss the holidays with my family. It's just not been a good past few months.
The fellow who went to Japan still hasn't returned so maybe they'll switch me to primary school, which is a lot more pleasant. I taught primary for a while until more teachers came. I had been teaching middle school for the past few months, who are for the most part spoilt rich kids who don't care about English. You wouldn't believe some of the stories I could tell just about the middle school, so I won't even go into it! Some classes are great, others make you curse the day you were conceived.
My school is also a good 10 km outside of town, so I can go for long walks and ride my bicycle across the countryside when it warms up. That I'm definately looking forward to. On the other had, it's a lot more isolating being out here.
But now that I think about it, it can only get better from here, it can't get worse. At least I hope so. Really, it's not just Luoyang, it's a lot of factors coming into play. I don't think I've ever been so happy to see the spring coming!