Job Discussion Forums

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

The reason I ask this is that many people (myself included) have complained about this school or that language mill screwing them over because of vague contract clauses or some other reasons.

My current contract ends on July 15 (officially, although I'll be finished before the end of June). I've had my summer job lined up for a couple of months now (started talking to the person in charge back in February) and I'm just now winding up negotiations with the job I'm going to take in September (contract due next week, so we'll see . . . ).

Before I first came to China, I took my first teaching gig (the place I'm finishing up now) sight unseen. This job has been . . . . challenging . . . . to say the least, but they pretty much honor their contract and I was able to negotiate a better one when I reupped for the second year.

So, are we EVER going to find a flawless teaching job in China? Most signs point to "no", but I feel that some people rush into a job with their heads in the sky. The website looks so wonderful. The city where it's located is so beautiful. The person I talked to on the phone was so charming and polite. He/She couldn't possibly be dishonest.

If this is your first ever job in China, then you'll go through the learning process like most any other "newbie". However, if this is your 3rd or 4th job, do you go through your contract with a fine-toothed comb? Do you try and visit the locations of the places you are considering? Do you ask questions and then ask some more? Do you try and negotiate your salary or other "perks"? Do you try to clarify things in your contract that aren't too clear?

If you have a degree (esp. education) and/or are TEFL certified, then you are a hotter commodity than most. If you have a neutral accent and are light-skinned and come from Canada, US, Australia, or England, that is almost a free ride for you. You don't have to "settle" for a job. The more experience you get here is also better for you. If you wait till the last minute to find a new job and rush through things, then you are bound to get screwed over. Granted, if you do all your research ahead of time, you still may get a royal - - you-know-what, but do a little investigating first. Just posting a thread here at Dave's about: "What do you know about XXX school?" is only a small portion of what you need to do to try and ensure you are going to be satisfied with your next job.

go_ABs · Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 507

Do you go through your contract with a fine-toothed comb?

Yes. Chinese contracts are of a lesser quality than NZ contracts, and most people know this. But that doesn't mean I'm going to sign my name to something without thoroughly reading through it.

Do you try and visit the locations of the places you are considering?

No. I think this is often too expensive and time-consuming, unless you're near to, or on your way through there anyway.

Do you ask questions and then ask some more?

Hell, yes. I ask every question I can possibly think of, and make sure every answer is crystal clear. If not, I say so and ask for a more detailed explanation. I think most good employers would understand that you need to do this to make sure you're going somewhere reasonable. If they don't answer your questions then it's unlikely they're going to be much of an employer, really.

Do you try and negotiate your salary or other "perks"?

Sure. Being a degreed, light-skinned neutral-accented native speaker (where was NZ on your list of those who can get a 'free ride'?) I try to get as much as possible. China won't make you Richy Rich, but you might as well get as much as you can, in my thinking.

Do you try to clarify things in your contract that aren't too clear?

Certainly. Why wouldn't you? I think qualified, experienced teachers (and maybe others, too) can get away with suggesting changes to the contract and actually writing a suggested replacement passage.

I think that many people do exactly as you say, with their heads "in the sky", and quickly find out that it's not all roses. Then they whinge and whinge.

Other posters have said it time and again, but I think it's always worth saying once more if it could help someone: take enough money with you to escape if you have to. You don't want to have to rely on your employer for money if they turn out to be untrustworthy.

So, are we EVER going to find a flawless teaching job in China?

Is there a flawless job anywhere in the world? Has there ever been?

This is a good topic, Kev, and I'm interested to see how others respond.

Girl Scout · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 525 Location: Inbetween worlds

I accepted my job based on the fact that they have a discussion board where current and former teachers can post questions and answers. I also could only find two negative posts about the school here on Dave's. One of those post was so childish and petty I didn't give his rant much credit.

Yes, they have a pretty website with pretty pictures too. They also had a break down of cost of living in the area written by a former teacher, a diagram of the apartment and a FAQ page.

I read every word of the contract more then once. I've asked a lot of questions and will continue to ask questions. This will be my first job in China, but I have been in TW for 3 years. Vague contracts and hidden expectations are not new to me.

Information is essential. The more you know the better.

Chris_Crossley · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: Searching questions to be asked

Just before I saw in the (calendar) new year, I started a thread about the need to ask searching questions when schools start presenting prospective employees with very vague contracts with even vaguer conditions. Here's the link:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=18420

As always, I hope people find it useful whenever they see a contract from a school that they might want to work for.

(Talking about new year, the Scotsman group of newspapers is already advertising its 2006 calendar, and it's only May 12th! The link is: http://calendar.scotsman.com)

yaco · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 473

Kev

I thought you were leaving China ?

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I have been at my current school for about 1 1/2 years now. I began working there doing part-time EC's. I had the advantage of getting to know management/other FT's without commiting to a contract right away. The management were great, pay always on time and no problems with the contract. I signed on for a year contract and I resigned again. When you find that "almost perfect" school, it is best to stay there. I agree with go_abs and all the points he made but for me because I plan to stay around the area, I would always visit the school first.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I was leaving - - really, really I was. I already had job apps from my home town sent this way to fill out. I already lined up an apartment (a friend of mine has an upstairs apartment in his home), I was already calculating costs and money I'd need, etc. I was saying good-bye to friends here and trying to figure out what to ship home and what to pack. Then I realized I probably needed a bit more money - - maybe about 3 months worth of work. I actually found a job offer online that offered 3-month contracts.

Then, I "stumbled" across this other job offer that is going to pay me a BUCKETload of money! (okay, that's not too professional to say that, but still . . . ) So, I had to balance the desire to leave China for good and get on with my "normal" life or take this job and (hopefully? probably?) save some real money for the next year. This job promises to keep me quite busy, so the time should fly by. Never say never . . .

oprah · Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Posts: 382

So Kev, you were analyzing the contract at the new place.. have you accepted the job??

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

. . . (stupid slow internet)

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

yep, everything "seems" okay and above board - - - but I may be here whining come next October. Rolling Eyes

No, I'm sure it will be a better situation than I am currently in and I will have an off-campus apartment. If I can go to work and, you know, work and then try to have a semblance of a non-work life when I'm away from the school, then things may be better than if I were always hanging out around the school.

And yes, I took my own advice and asked a TON of questions and received confirmations and assurances and I will be signing that there contract come the beginning of June. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Kev, my answer is ONE OR TWO MONTHS BEFORE MY CURRENT CONTRACT EXPIRES. My current employer gave me a "work visa" (residency permit) valid only till the last day of my current Contract.
So, as I'll be collecting my last salary (considering I do not want to stay on), I will have to rush to make my new arrangements "extending my residency" with the prospective employer then on, if I do not want to waste my money exiting China and coming back or if I do not want to fly back home. Anyway, I thought that your question was interesting.
Cheers and beers

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I asked my school last year, when they were getting my new and current residence permit, to have it dated through August 31st. This despite the fact that my contract officially ends on July 15th. At that time, it was so I could work a summer job and/or travel around China a bit before heading home. Now it works as a nice cushion, giving my new school plenty of time to extend the permit for the duration of my new contract.