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Netminder
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear All,
Thank-you for your feedback, it has been most helpful. Zero Hero, if you don't mind me saying so, you are after my own heart- you sound a well-experienced, world-weary type of teacher who doesn't sweat the small stuff.
I really don't mind that the process takes as long as it does, as I was told well ahead of time that the job would start mid-August. Frankly, it is an effective way to screen the ESL dillitantes who butterfly from hither and yon on a monthly basis (such as myself, early in my career). As such, I'm not so clear why others are having such a hard time of it. I am in Muscat, Oman right now, with my contract ending in late July- giving me plenty of time to change horses when the time comes.
On a side-note, many teachers here work themselves into a lather on a daily basis over having to sign in during a semester break of a couple weeks; sure it's a pain in the teeth, but becoming progressively agitated about it doesn't do much for your mental health. As an old girlfriend once told me (repeatedly, until it sunk in somewhat) "Breathe...deeply...there ya go!"
That, and/or pick up some Chopra books if you're still in a tizzy. |
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once again
Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Why do the teachers need to sign in over the summer break? Does that mean that a teacher must always be on call, or can they go on holiday? |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 58
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Frankly, it is an effective way to screen the ESL dillitantes who butterfly from hither and yon on a monthly basis (such as myself, early in my career). |
The fact of the matter is with the NET program you don't get this type of teacher. Many of the teachers are leaving the school system in their own country...and need to know whether they have a job or not in Hong Kong.
It didn't bother me either as I had a crappy job in Canada teaching at a private language institute...but I talk to many teachers here at dave's and in HK once they arrived who told me of the problems the system caused them. |
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well-travelled
Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with Scott here - the NET programme is not a job for ESL dilettantes; every NET teacher I know is qualified and has umpteen years of experience. And I know no one on the scheme whom I wouldn't consider a 'professional' teacher.
As such - as Scott says - the vast majority of these teachers aren't just fancy-free and backpacking around the world just for the hell of it. They have commitments etc... - hence my comments in my last posting on this thread where I argued that EMB are losing numerous good people as a result of their dilatory recruitment process. (There are other reasons as well - but I won't go into those reasons now.)
Netminder says that he has no problem as he was told well ahead of time that the job would start in mid-August. Fair enough, but, as I interpret it, he hasn't got a definite job offer yet; he's just been told he's passed the interview. He expects the offers just to flood in after mid-May. And maybe they will - I don't know. But it ain't necessarily so.
I applied for a NET post and was interviewed in March 2003. I was informed that I had passed the interview. Then I heard nothing -absolutely zilch: nada: rien - after that. I wasn't offered a single job. And this in spite of the fact that I'd worked in a secondary school in HK throughout the 1990s and my references were about as glowing as you could hope for.
To be honest, I was involved with other things at the time and didn't chase up EMB. But I guess the point I'm making is that just because you pass the initial interview, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get an actual job offer. You do have to pester EMB to remind them that you exist. And, once again, I think that this reflects negatively on EMB, especially when they are so nit-picking with regard to qualifications etc.. (See Scott's comments about his passport on the first page of this thread!!)
This is a long post and we live in an age of ever-decreasing attention spans - and most NET teachers will be aware of that problem with regard to their students. However, I have a couple of more points re. this thread.
In response to a comment by Zero Hero, Islanddreamer said that:
"Actually contracting a NET has nothing to do with school enrolment numbers. It's to do with how quickly the EMB passes potential candidate CVs to the individual schools, and how quickly the schools choose a NET from those CVs. Neither the EMB nor the schools realise that they are putting their candidates in a difficult position by shoving them in a drawer to be dealt with later."
I would tend to agree with that, but Zero Hero responded that:
"Actually, it does; though it depends on the type of school. I worked on a project with the EMB looking at this very issue. I can supply all relevant paperwork and documentation if you wish."
I realise it's a pain, but I wonder if ZH could post a succinct summary of the research concerning the impact of enrolment numbers on the NET scheme. If that does account for the late job offers - and I don't discount the possibility - well, it's not something EMB has been publicising to defend its poor record.
Finally, just to say that the pay in Oman is lousy but it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world - with the friendliest people you're ever likely to come across.
And Dylan's 'Self Portrait' album is not one of his best!!!!!!
well-travelled |
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Netminder
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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After ready your lengthy response, I must say that I wonder exactly how "well-travelled" you really are. Seriously, no one at EMB is holding a gun to your head- your implication that I'm counting on the HK job, like most of your post, is just slightly off-target. Like anyone who has been around the ESL game for more than a few months, I have a few other offers lined up in case HK falls through- put all your eggs in one basket, and disaster will surely ensue. You should know that.
Every school/college/university I've worked at doesn't know until usually one or two days before classes what the exact number of students will be; like Zero Hero, I've developed a sound survival strategy of ambiguity tolerance- it keeps me from getting hysterical at the slightest thing.
Your comment on the Bob Dylan album tells me everything I need to know about the validity of your remarks. |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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If I may explore a tangential theme, I never used to like 'Self Portrait'. Indeed, it sat on my shelf untouched for years after I listened to it just once. Along with 'Dylan' (outtakes from 'Self Portrait') I thought it was terrible � simply something to be forgotten, an embarrassing blemish on Dylan's otherwise superb record. Seminal efforts like 'Bringing it all back home', 'Highway 61 revisited', 'Blonde on Blonde', 'John Wesley Harding', not to mention works such as 'Blood on the Tracks' and 'Desire', etc., merely served to further confirm this feeling.
However, now, some 20-odd years later, believe it or not it is one of my favourite Dylan albums (though I still find it a tad hard to listen to his rendition of 'The Boxer')! To my mind his worst albums are 'Hard Rain' and 'Dylan and the Dead'.
The small project I was involved in with the EMB and HKIED concerned primary schools, many of which are now being forced to close down due to ever falling enrolment figures, and the possibility of placing a PNET in each and every school rather than have two schools sharing one NET.
Last edited by Zero Hero on Sat May 14, 2005 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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well-travelled
Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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It wasn't my intention to imply that you were counting on the HK job - that's really none of my business. My use of the word 'you' was general, not specific.
As for 'Self Portrait', well it looks as though I'll have to go and dig out a copy and see if I still feel as ZH did all those years back!!
well-travelled |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 58
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
After ready your lengthy response, I must say that I wonder exactly how "well-travelled" you really are. |
Isn't this nice...it only takes about 4 posts now for people to start taking swipes at other posters. Is there some reason we can have discussions on this forum (I include myself) without the little digs at each other.
The one thing different about teachers on the NET program and other ESL'ers...is that many of the teachers are not ESL'ers...they simply took some time off their mainstream teaching in their home countries to come to HK to work. I remember the big stir when so many went home after their first contract. The papers all wondered why so many teachers didn't re-sign...but the fact of the matter was that they had never planned on re-signing.
I know that this is now changing and their are more ESL teachers entering the program.
One reason that many teaches may be miffed at the process is that this a good job. And truly good jobs in ESL are rare so many want the NET job over the other offers they have in the wings.
I actually can thank the process, as it was the reason I got the job. I only had 3 years experience (all ESL) when I was hired. I was hired late, so I figure I got in because someone else couldn't wait it out... |
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well-travelled
Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Scott -
I admit that I found Netminder's insults gratuitous and tiresome and am still considering my reply - problem is that once I start wading in, the whole thing may deteriorate to a slanging match- an egotistical battle to see who can come up with the best insults - and as you say, there's far too much of that crap on here as it is.
I agree with you about the NET post. Although benefits have been eroded over the years - and there is currently a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst serving NETs about the way EMB are handling this - the salary is still as good as it gets in the ESL world.
well-travelled
well-travelled |
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well-travelled
Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Netminder -
Amongst the gratuitous and rather tiresome insults you made in your last post, there are a few points that I feel need a response.
I have re-read my own post and still don�t understand why you believe that I suggested you were counting on the HK job.
The main point of my argument was that just because teachers have been told by EMB that they have passed the interview, it doesn�t mean that a definite offer will materialise unless they force EMB�s hand by emailing them fairly constantly. I was making a general comment which I thought may be of use to any potential NETs who read these postings, yourself included if you don�t hear from HK within the next week or so.
As for your comments about having other posts lined up etc .. well, go tell your grandmother to suck those proverbial eggs in the basket. Of course, it�s only common sense to keep a number of options open for as long as you can - but again, I can see nothing in my own postings that suggests otherwise. Before I returned to HK last August, I had 2-3 other offers to choose from, including a post at SQU in Oman. In fact, I would have loved to have gone to SQU, but I chose HK because it paid by far the most money compared with the other positions that were available to me. And at the moment I have family commitments where money is the most important factor in my accepting a job.
My main argument on this thread has been that EMB is sadly lacking with regard to its recruitment practices. I stand by that. If EMB were a company rather than a government body, they would have long since been hauled over the coals � rather ironic given the fact that EMB advocate management practices in education that derive from corporate business strategies.
And enrolment numbers are totally irrelevant to the employment of NET teachers in the secondary school system. (Although, I concede that, to a certain extent, it is different in the primary sector given the falling enrolment numbers � thanks ZH for your comments!) To say that every school/college/university you�ve worked at doesn�t know until one or two days before classes what the exact number of students will be simply does not apply to the HK secondary school system (although I agree that it does apply in a lot of situations, including the Middle East.)
The fact that EMB doesn�t know (even now!!!) how many secondary NETs it needs for August is because that they�re only just issuing renewals for NETs at the end of their current two-year contracts. Far, far too late � and there�s a letter in today�s South China Morning Post from a NET teacher which criticises EMB for their tardiness in this matter. And, believe me, there are many other serving NETs who would agree with him.
Well-travelled |
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Netminder
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Let it go, "well-travelled"; I sure have. |
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islanddreamer
Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 28
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:51 am Post subject: |
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'Let it go, "well-travelled"; I sure have.'
That must have been an apology. Good luck, Netminder. Hope you end up where you want to be.
[/quote] |
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well-travelled
Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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OK - I wish you good luck too, Netminder. Hope you hear from HK soon!!
And I'll definitely check out Dylan's "Self Portrait" album again!!
well-travelled |
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Netminder
Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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[quote="islanddreamer"]'Let it go, "well-travelled"; I sure have.'
That must have been an apology. Good luck, Netminder. Hope you end up where you want to be.
[/quote][/quote]
A small piece of advise- don't allow web board posts to get under your skin- it makes it far too easy for people to push your buttons. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 58
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I have a even smaller piece of advice....don't push people's buttons...there is no reason...and people tend to want to push back... |
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