Job Discussion Forums

[Blair Zettl]

The only site to which Clark w.Griswald (Chevy Chase in National Lampoons Christmas Vacation?) refers is a recruiting/advertizing site itself - I get spam from them all the time with names of teachers. Buxiban.com is owned by and Australian by the name of Simon Cunningham. Does this name sound familiar Mr. Griswald? One must consider the possibility that not every relevant law in Taiwan is posted here.

If you would like to check out some legalities I suggest working through the maze at www.gio.com.tw It has some good info. This is first-hand. I also know there is more info/ laws in Taiwan on the net posted by the government here. The site seems to be having a little trouble today...

Regarding the trust issue, I accept that I am not well-known in the international recruiting industry. So I have to make a point. We are not talking about the existence of Mr. Snuffulufagus (sp?). I am being challenged on the existence of LEGAL city or municipal programs. They offer positions to any of the usual six countries. These are the operating programs, (and Dave, I'm not recruiting), the city of Hsin Chu has the oldest program which started 4 years ago. This operates in the first style I mentioned - managment company (bushiban) holding ARCs. In the past there have been 3 companies issued this contract in the past and this year it was awarded to a new company(with whom I have no working agreement or plan to do so). This remains the largest city/municipal run program in Taiwan with about 65 teachers. It is highly visible. Taichung has a smaller pilot program with 16(?) teachers. This contract was awarded in late Jan., or early Feb. of this year and the teachers began in March. I am less familiar with this program, I don't know whether the ARCs are actually held by one of the schools which oversees the management company or the management company which manages the project (Bureaucracy!). As of September Taoyuan will have a program with 15 teachers. 2 of these will be in the city and 13 in the countryside (somewhat contrary to what they first announced.) Tainan and Taitung also would like to have city programs but haven't made an official announcemnt as far as I have heard. They were talking about five each.

To be clear, the Ministry of Education oversees these programs. ARCs, visa and all the legal paperwork is provided for the teachers. Other foreign teachers may confirm that lesson plans are required to prepared and left at the schools for future reference by MOE officials.

Foreign teachers are observed in their classrooms by local education officials at least once per semester.

How does it all happen in public view if it is not legal? So don't take on me, take on the cities above and tell them their programs are illegal. I'm sure they'll be happy to chat with you. In the meantime, B.Eds already working in these programs and former teachers, including non-B.Eds can assure you that you can work legally within these city-run programs.



Website for reference
national site:
www.gio.com.tw

Hsin Chu City Site:
http://www.eb.hc.edu.tw/english/
1. Education Reform Policies-an impetus for the modernization of education:

(1) Push forward with the "Educational Innovations of 1-9 Educational Curriculums" policy.
(2) Move forward with the implementation of the city's comprehensive elementary English education program, and promote instruction quality through the cooperation of local and foreign teachers.

[clark.w.griswald]

Firstly, I think that you really need to clarify your terminology as it is really quite alien to the majority of users of this forum. What do you mean by �management company� and how does a management company differ from a buxiban and a recruiter?

[wangtesol]

In Japan there is a similar problem with private companies sending teachers to public schools illegally.

The General Union of Osaka and the National Union of General Workers Tokyo South have been fighting this issue for the last couple of years on the basis that such contracts between local boards of education and private companies have in fact been illegal since they violate Education Law and Dispatch Law.

In February 2005, the Ministry of Education agreed with the unions' position that the system did indeed violate Education Law since under the Law the school principal must be in charge of all staff; however, under the illegal outsourcing system, the company is in charge of the teacher, not the principal. Thus the teacher need not listen to any directions from the principal such as going to class.

However, the Ministry of Labor has been hesitant to recognize the violation of Dispatch Law that such a system employs. In this system, "dispatch companies" are not getting themselves licensed or even signing "dispatch contracts." Of course it is illegal for a company to act as a dispatch company yet not have a license but the Ministry of Labor is avoiding the issue.

In Japan, the local boards of education actually seem to be the ones pushing the illegal system since it saves them the hassle of dealing with foreign teachers. If foreign teachers in Taiwan want their rights, they have to fight for them. I would not expect all local boards of education in Taiwan to care about the legal issues involved. However, the issue has become a concern of the Democractic Party of Japan and their lobbying has brought the issue to the fore.

You can check the Assitant Language Teachers Issues website of National Union of General Workers Tokyo South for more information...

http://nambufwc.org/komplete/webapps/komplete/index.php?KTURL=mod_page.html&page=133

[clark.w.griswald]

Interesting post wangtesol.

I don't think that the problem here in Taiwan is one where the government doesn't care about foreigner rights on the issue, but one where the government is damned if they do or damned if they don't.

If they don't allow foreigners to teach in these schools, then they are perceived by us foreigners as acting unfairly.

The resistance to foreign teachers in the government school system comes from teachers, especially English teachers, and also from local rights activists. The feeling is one of can Taiwan afford to be giving the jobs of locals away to foreigners. After all, the locals can teach English, it is just that foreigners can be good for inspiring the students and helping them with conversational aspects of the language. I can certainly understand the concerns of locals who may perceive that foreigners are taking away their jobs, and would no doubt feel the same way if the reverse situation were true back home.

The second area of resistance as far as I can tell comes from the schools themselves. One foreign teacher would cost the school the same as two or even three local teachers. The question as to whether the employment of foreign teachers, and the subsequent cost of this, can be justified to the parents of students whose interest in not in studying English, would be difficult I imagine. Again, I can understand this concern, particularly when one considers that very few of the teachers offered to these schools would be likely to be very good at what they do. In order to be effective in a government school system the foreign teacher would need to have a good understanding of grammar usage, as well as an ability to explain these at the level of the students who are studying them. Mandarin language abilities would be a big plus. I suspect that few teachers can meet these requirements, which further raises the question as to whether it is worth hiring foreigners to do this work.

An alternative would be to use the money that would be spent on foreigners into more long term objectives such as training the Chinese staff to more adequately teach English. My experience with these Chinese teachers is that they have a good knowledge of the fundamentals of the language, but that they don't have the confidence to use English as a medium for teaching, which could be very valuable for the students. It would be very easy to give them this confidence through teacher training, and the value of doing this would be felt for as long as these teachers continued to teach. The foreign staff would generally be on a yearly contract and once they leave, so does the value of their work.

At the end of the day, the government here needs to decide where the greatest value lies, and in my opion the gauge of this value is having students who are willing and able to communicate in English. I am not convinced that the employment of foreigners in these positions would guarantee this.

[Aristotle]

And now for the short answer.

[clark.w.griswald]