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burnsie · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 489 Location: Beijing

What about this story.

A teacher set the exam 2 weeks before the end of class and gave a copy to all the other teachers to 'prep' their little darlings (there were 6 classes doing the same subject at the same).

The one teacher found a few days later a written answer sheet with all the questions which is duely took to the head. Teachers 0 - Students - 1.

The head was not happy and asked the teacher to reset the exam based on same topics but different questions and therefore answers.

The students were then notified amidst open mouths and lots of hand to desk banging. Teachers 1 - Students - 1 .

Students went to their head and complained that they do not have enough time to find the answers again and needed more time (probably to find the answers again).

The school then rescheduled 2 more weeks to 'prep' the little darlings. Teachers 1 - Students - 2.

So now the school has rewarded the students with extra time even though they cheated. Rumors have it that one of the teachers was the instigator but this is not the first time that a students have found out the questions.

The exam is set for next Friday so we will see what happens.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

I'm with Roger on this one. I also think it's about consequences, something that the students here don't have alot of practice with. They think that they can get away with whatever they want if they say sorry.

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

checkmate · Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 55 Location: Shenzhen. China

To go with the flow.

Your idea that cheating is good sounds like another phrase. Greed is good.
Cheating in school in China is happening only because it has been allowed to, by everyone and some of us too. It might make it easier to get through your class but it teaches the student nothing.
As a foreign teacher in China it is my job to teach students to aquire knowledge and to give them practical ability to go along with their theory.
If cheating is allowed to continue especially by foreign teachers then we teach that in our cultures it is normal as well and when these students go to our countries they have a lot of difficulty because it is not accepted especially in higher learning institutions.
This may be rhetoric but we are shaping the new China by what we teach to the new generation. If we teach that cheating is acceptable then we learn nothing except to show that foreign teachers are a waste of time.

Midlothian Mapleheart · Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 623 Location: Elsewhere

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

frigginhippie · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 188 Location: over here

go with the flow · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 18

Haven't been back to this thread for awhile, but can't resist placing the following from http://dailyhowler.com/ about testing in the US (New York, specifically).

"And he (Cannell) suggested an unpleasant explanation for this implausible state of affairs�teachers and principals were cheating on tests, driving up everyone�s test scores. Cannell ran an ad in an education journal, soliciting first-hand accounts from teachers. According to Cannell, over 300 teachers wrote to tell him about outright cheating in their schools."

lumberjackej · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:

I'm sorry, go with the flow, I'm usually pretty open-minded on this forum, but I think your views on cheating are completely ridiculous.

This has nothing to do with western values, or doing as the Romans in Rome, or anything like that. No offense, but these arguments honestly sound like the same BS that a Chinese student would make to condone cheating.

Cheating interferes with learning actual course material. The only thing it teaches students is how to cheat more effectively.

Personally, I don't condemn cheaters out of any high moral moral or ethical standards. I simply find it insulting, to both my other students and to myself as an educator.

I work pretty hard to create quality classes where students can improve their English. Most of my students follow suit and put an equal amount of effort into my class. It's an insult when a group of cheaters think they can sail through the course by writing a few crib notes, rather than actually attending class like other students, and they are punished for this.

wonderd · Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Shanghai, China

I don't understand what the problem is.

1. You explain to your students that cheating will not be tolerated.
2. If you catch them, you take whatever steps you feel necessary.

On final exams, I always tell my students, if I catch you cheating... 0.

To be honest with you, I've never thought of cheating as a western or Chinese cultural thing. And I don't care if people cheat on their taxes or the corporations that have cheated in the past.

If you're taking my test, in my class, and you cheat, no matter what country you're in, it's 0.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Go with the flow seems to view honest folks as idiots and morons that just fail to do as the "Romans do in Rome".
What if we all had fake certs? Would that be equally acceptable? And why not this as well? - fake ID cards, fake passports, fake everything!

wonderd · Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Shanghai, China

Roger. Agreed. I think the problem here is not "cultural" morals but "personal" morals.

clarrie · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 75

It's genetic!

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

When I give tests in my accounting classes, there are four versions. They all know this. Even so, last semester, this one bozo copied his girlfriend's test.

You guessed it. Her test was much different. Gave them both zeroes.